It’s rather well-known by now amongst those who care for matters political that Mitt Romney conveniently received a Vietnam War deferment for Mormon missionary work in Paris, France. This detail wouldn’t be so interesting if it were not for Romney’s pro-Vietnam war position activities in 1968, in which he staged a counter-protest to demonstrations against Stanford University’s draft-status tests.
Indeed, if he was so gung-ho about the anti-communist effort in Vietnam, why didn’t he simply bypass the draft and enlist? For Romney, religion was a convenient shelter. He was not ultimately interested in the blood and gore of battle but in the wars launched by men in boardrooms against other companies and, indeed, common people.
So it is with some wonder that a recent poll indicates Romney enjoys wide support from military veterans.
According to a Gallup poll, veterans account for 13% of the U.S. population, though it is mostly comprised of older men. “U.S. veterans… support Mitt Romney over Barack Obama for president by 58% to 34%, while nonveterans give Obama a four-percentage-point edge,” reports Gallup, which added, “Those younger than 50 are roughly as likely to support Romney as are those 60 and older.”
Perhaps the current veteran support for Romney is simply a function of many military folk traditionally voting Republican. The GOP is quite open about a robust defense budget, which signals (at least symbolically) no shortage of work for warriors. However, one is left wondering if the GOP’s penchant for war-making ever enters the veteran thought process. And when one considers the fact that President Obama has hardly cut the defense budget — indeed, he has maintained it — the bafflement only grows.
What veterans must see in Mitt Romney, a draft dodger who received three academic deferments after the gift of his religion, would be a source of curiosity if it were not so damned discouraging. Nothing in his personal and business biography indicates any sort of comparable life experience with the average veteran. But this is the version of America hatched from that acting hack Ronald Reagan. The genius of his method — and it was an acting method — is to adopt a role and project an image of success (financial and economic prosperity) that so stupefies an audience (voting population) that reason is rendered a mental after-thought.
May 28, 2012 at 11:11 am, O’Malley becomes the Obama governor; Giuliani is still competing with Romney – Capital New York « Wiadomości z różnych kanałów said:
[...] the country's Democratic governors. O'Malley's closeness to the re-election …Mitt Romney, draft dodger, has wide support of military veteransDeath and TaxesGallup: Veterans Still Going Big For Romney And GOPTPM5 reasons the GOP thinks Romney [...]
May 28, 2012 at 11:16 am, My Blog » O’Malley becomes the Obama governor; Giuliani is still competing with Romney – Capital New York said:
[...] the country's Democratic governors. O'Malley's closeness to the re-election …Mitt Romney, draft dodger, has wide support of military veteransDeath and TaxesGallup: Veterans Still Going Big For Romney And GOPTPM5 reasons the GOP thinks Romney [...]
May 28, 2012 at 11:24 am, Gallup: Veterans Still Going Big For Romney And GOP – TPM | www.an-s.pl said:
[...] corresponding with veterans' Republican leanings. Romney has 58 percent support among …Mitt Romney, draft dodger, has wide support of military veteransDeath and TaxesO'Malley becomes the Obama governor; Giuliani is still competing with [...]
May 28, 2012 at 3:37 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
In my small sphere of experience during the Viet Nam War, I know that it was very difficult to get a deferment, since all men at 18 years had to sign up for the draft. At first, men could be deferred because they had children or were in college. Later, almost everyone had to serve, unless they could get out of it by the kind of work they did or by their pacifist religion. Romney had neither of these going for him, so it makes you wonder if he got off ecause of his social status, which was, of course, another way to get out of going to Viet Nam. The several vets that I know from that era who are still alive are, contrary to this poll, solidly behind President Obama.
May 29, 2012 at 5:57 pm, Andrew Hendrickson said:
Interesting…your experience was different then mine. I had 4 brothers of age during the Vietnam War. Two of them joined to procure a non-combat position in "military intelligence". Another brother had a draft number of 324 and never got drafted, his number was too high. The 4th brother did defer his draft by serving a 2 year mission. When he returned, the war was winding down and though he was eligible to be drafted, he wasn't.
Our father's income and family situation would be considered middle class. He served under Patton 3rd Army in WWII and worked hard to support our mother, 7 sons and 1 daughter.
May 29, 2012 at 6:23 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
I forgot to mention that the draft changed to a lottery system in late 1969. Funny, I come from middle class family of 5 girls and 1 boy, who did not serve. Several brothers-in-law did serve, one who was wounded in combat. So we no doubt had different experiences then. But, we were all changed by that war. l
May 30, 2012 at 12:40 am, Nena Espinosa said:
How can you support a deceiver? obama that is!
June 07, 2012 at 7:41 pm, Karen A. Johnson said:
The master of deception seems to be Mitt Romney, when you look at his weathervane changes of policy, philosophy, and personal beliefs over his lifetime, particularly in the last 20+ years as he prepared to be…er, run for President.
PolitiFact.com considers him to be the polar opposite of President Obama. Obama has a Truth-O-Meter value of plus +12.36 and Mitt Romney has a value of minus -12.69
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/jul/05/politifact-truth-index/
Here's how they rank in truthtelling, percentage wise:
Obama:
True…………….88….23.7%
Mostly True…..86….23.2%
Half True………91….24.5%
Mostly False…44….11.9%
False…………..57…15.4%
Pants on Fire….5…..0.1%
Romney:
True…………….23…17.3%
Mostly True…..20…15.0%
Half True………36….27.0%
Mostly False…21…15.8%
False…………..20…15.0%
Pants on Fire..13…..9.8%
July 03, 2012 at 3:12 pm, Judy Jutze said:
Guys were issued a deferment during the Vietnam War if they showed up for their physical in red lace bikini underwear. The military had their standards at the time.
August 20, 2012 at 6:23 pm, Sam Bailey said:
The REAL DECIEVERS are the one who lied to take american to war and THAT lie got over 4,000 of your fellow american KILLED ! Nena ,do you care anything about those 4,000 dead americans WHO DIED FOR A BIG LIE ? Or do you hate President Obama so much, that you are willing to OVER LOOK ,THE FACTS ?
August 21, 2012 at 12:32 am, Ann Wisniewski said:
Sam Bailey You are so right! I really don't know why so many people walk around with amnesia denying that they were deceived into supporting a war that has had so much consequence in destroying our country's wealth, tarnishing our international image, as well as killing thousands of innocent victims. I guess some people have no conscience and can be easily lead by those who only want power for the sake of power.
September 01, 2012 at 2:02 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Joe Biden got FIVE draft deferrals…. And a deferment does NOT a dodger make…
September 01, 2012 at 2:03 pm, Mathilde Young said:
And for LIES… How about the BIG one Obama made about not raising taxes on the middle class. Then he gave us OBAMACARE – which has about 20 taxes in it. The 'no new lies' thing cost Bush #1 the election. It should cost Obama too.
September 01, 2012 at 8:25 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
Mathilde Young: "Tax" or "fine"? Look into how Romney cut" taxes" in Mass. and then charged "fines" instead. Don't get snowed by what you want to hear. "A rose by any other name…." As for lies, it was the Supreme Court that said ACA was constitutional while using the word "tax" as the constitution does.
September 01, 2012 at 8:27 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
Mathilde Young As for lies, the RNC this past week was just full of them!
September 01, 2012 at 8:30 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
Mathilde Young I was not referring to Biden. At least one of his offspring has served more than once in our recent wars. Can't say that for any of the FIVE Romney sons. Of course, in the Romney mind, to be patriotic is to think of our country as a "company".
September 01, 2012 at 9:44 pm, Mathilde Young said:
So you're voting for Obama just because at least one of Biden's sons served in the military? And, if Romney wants to try running the GOVERNMENT like a company, I'm sure he'll do a better job than Obama… How much did the deficit increase under Obama? How many MORE people are in poverty now then when Obama took office? How is the unemployment compared to when Bush left office?
And, if the Supreme court said it was a 'tax' then it is a 'tax'… If Obama cared to keep his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class, he could have gone back and said 'rewrite this law to remove ALL the taxes' (there are ALOT of them).
Time for a REAL change in the White House. Romney/Ryan 2012
And speaking of patriotic, how long did into her adult life did it take Michelle Obama to become patriotic?
September 01, 2012 at 10:48 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
Mathilde Young: If you want no safety net as you grow older and no insurance for your preexisting condition (being a woman) vote for Romney/Ryan. If you want to have the cost of more wars on the "company's" credit card, not to mention the unnecessary loss and maiming of innocents, go ahead, vote red. If you want a "small-minded" government, then I hope you are ready to suffer the consequences. Maybe if things don't go your way in this election, you could consider following your infamous Texas governor and secede. Good luck with that. Obama, 2012
September 01, 2012 at 11:01 pm, Mathilde Young said:
The safety net is going to be gone soon as they (SS, Medicare) are going BROKE. Romney/Ryan want to reform them, not get rid of them.. And, if you remember 9/11, the war in Afghanistan was needed to fight the 'war on terror'. And Obama's FAILED stimulus package cost more than the Iraq war. Just because Bush went to war, doesn't mean Romney will… It's like pulling the Monica Lewinsky card and saying Obama would do the same thing… And, I don'want Obamacare if that's what your talking about when you mention pre-existing condition… Obamacare will add TRILLONS to the deficit.. yes, it may have one or two good points, but the overhead and taxes make Obamacare really bad for america (lot's of doctors are planning early retirement because of Obamacare).
September 05, 2012 at 6:11 am, Shannon Puskar said:
The biggest liar or wait, "failure to disclose"(r) is Romney. He doesn't want to admit to how we got into this mess in the first place. At least the Democrats are trying to address problems… http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/congress-democrats-insourcing-tax-credit-legislation-63354-1.html
September 05, 2012 at 5:13 pm, Mathilde Young said:
The democrats have FAILED to address problems… Unemployment has been above 8% for Obama's entire term. More people are on food stamps and in poverty than ever before. Obama has been unable to turn this country around and I don't want to give him 4 more years to 'try'. Liberals love pulling the 'tax returns' card to divert from the real issues of JOBS and the ECONOMY (and, FYI, if Romney had broken any laws, I'm sure some liberal inside the IRS would have leaked it by now).
September 05, 2012 at 10:52 pm, Shannon Puskar said:
Here's another link for you then since you obviously failed to read the other one…http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fixing-financial-crisis. Please take note to the date and stats…
September 05, 2012 at 11:08 pm, Mathilde Young said:
From what I have been reading, economists are saying that the economic problems prior to Obama taking office were caused by BOTH parties. Most, in fact, give a slightly larger share of the blame to Democrat-created housing policies….
September 05, 2012 at 11:18 pm, Shannon Puskar said:
Yes you are correct… it stems back over thirty years! So to think that it will take only 3 and a half is not only naive but simply stupid. It took us 14 years to get out the depression, and our problems now are of a more complex nature than those… it doesnt help when the GOP wont even attempt to work with him to fix what has been wrong! Deregulation, outsourcing, cuts to education, etc. I am sure your guy Mitt has these on his top agenda. Oh wait he does or doesnt… keeps flipping sides. Believes "limited government" is great for everything except our lives. Have you ever used birth control? Would you consider in vitro at any point or down someone who has if conception was found to be impossible? Better yet, have you been raped? If you answer yes to any of these and still vote for him, then you must have been dropped on your head at some point.
September 06, 2012 at 9:53 pm, Mathilde Young said:
If it takes more than 3.5 years to fix the econimy, why did Obama say he would have the economy fixed in 3 years or his presidency would be a 'one-term proposition' (his words, not mine. If you don't believe me, look it up) – Either he was not smart enough to know what he was doing when he made this promise and should not run for re-election, or, he simply keep his promise and not run for re-election.
Regarding birth control and invitro, yes, I HAVE used birth control (and invitro).. And, guess what, I PAID FOR IT MYSELF! I don't expect govt handouts… And Romney/Ryan have NO intention of making birth control (or invitro) unavailable to anyone if that's where you are going with this…I know the law you're thinking about for birth control (Personhood law) and that was NOT the intent of the law.
And, just because someone is pro-life, doesn’t mean they are anti-women. They are for the future unborn woman (or mans) right to life. (FYI: An unborn baby has a heartbeat and deserves a chance at life) If a little counseling or an ultrasound helps a woman decide to keep her baby than that is great. Maybe she will have less regret later in life.
FYI: The most recent Gallup poll I could find on abortion showed that more women are pro-LIFE (49%) than pro-choice (44%) – http://www. gallup. com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first-time.aspx so, I guess about ½ the women in the US got dumped on their head?
And, all politicians flip-flop.. Obama just flip-flopped at the DNC on referencing God and Jerusalem… Of course, Obama gets lots of free passes from the media when he flip-flops.. they call it ‘evolving’… I have read parts of the Romney/Ryan Jobs/Economic proposal (endorsed by over 500 economists and 5 Nobel Laureates).. After 3.5 years of stagnation (continued high unemployment, record deficit, record number of people on food stamps and in poverty), I am ready for a REAL change. Romney/Ryan 2012.
And, really, insults… I'm glad I'm not a liberal.. I've seen more liberals throw insults than any other group.
October 21, 2012 at 12:46 pm, Sharon French Nault said:
Mathilde Young , YOU just posted the same thing again SO now people know you are truly a 'troll' for the Romney campaign. I have one question. How does it feel to be used?
October 21, 2012 at 10:19 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Just trying to spread the TRUTH
Have a nice day.
October 29, 2012 at 3:00 pm, Gee Jimmy said:
Nena Espinosa You really said nothing with proof or back up of you statement. Maybe you are watching too meny TV ADS
October 29, 2012 at 5:02 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Two examples of Obama deception:
ONE: “today I’m pledging to cut the deficit we inherited in half by the end of my first term in office. This will not be easy. It will require us to make difficult decisions and face challenges we’ve long neglected. But I refuse to leave our children with a debt that they cannot repay — and that means taking responsibility right now, in this administration, for getting our spending under control.”
Obama, Feb 2009
He NEVER presented a plan to cut the deficit in 1/2.
TWO:
“I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes,”
President Obama, September 12, 2008 (regarding Obamacare). Obamacare ended up having 21 in it – most of which affect the middle class (e.g. medical device tax, lower HSA/FSA Limits, etc)
If you haven’t felt an impact yet, it is because most of the taxes go into effect after the election (I wonder why?)
I could list more if you'd like.
And I did NOT get those quotes from TV ADS
Romney/Ryan 2012
October 31, 2012 at 12:22 pm, Andrew Carroll said:
Nena Espinosa Its easy he's rightous. What do Dick Chaneey, George W. Bush And WILLIAR M. R-MONEY have in common, Answer their all cowards (draft dodgers) two are mass MURDERS if Romney is elected you can count on him joining that same club, thats what rich people do. I hope you don't have children. because he'll need them when he goes to IRAN and SYRIA, so feed them good and kept them healthy, without health insurance.
May 28, 2012 at 3:39 pm, Alison Fultz Kohutek said:
GIVE ME A FLIPPING BREAK! There are two things revere service to God and country. Our first right in the Bill Rights is the freedom of religion and secondly the freedom to express it. Our European ancestors did not come to this land to become a new nation, they came here because they were free, and especially free to practice their religons. The old European nations with their state religions oppressed
May 28, 2012 at 3:44 pm, Kevin Hunt said:
Romney is a chicken hawk. Reagan was also a fraud. Reagan presided over a plan to raise money for the drug trafficking "freedom fighters" (Contras) by selling advanced shoulder fired missiles to the same Iranian terrorists that held 52 americans hostage for 444 days.
May 28, 2012 at 3:44 pm, Kevin Hunt said:
Romney is a chicken hawk. Reagan was also a fraud. Reagan presided over a plan to raise money for the drug trafficking "freedom fighters" (Contras) by selling advanced shoulder fired missiles to the same Iranian terrorists that held 52 americans hostage for 444 days.
May 28, 2012 at 3:49 pm, Duncan Cormie said:
Chicken hawks rule!
May 28, 2012 at 4:51 pm, Curby William Graham said:
Well it could be that most veterans as well as those of us active duty types are politically conservative and we are not one-dimensional in our approach to politics. I know I have my preference for who would be better for the country overall. I am guessing Romney will get 70-75% of the military vote this Fall. It doesn't mean much to us when people who have never served call him a chicken-hawk or draft-dodger.
May 29, 2012 at 5:17 am, Laura Purdy said:
That man is frightening. I have room in my apartment in Stockholm if anyone wants to defect to Sweden.
May 29, 2012 at 2:18 pm, William Green said:
It amazes me to see those who have taken an oath to support and defend our constitution willing to support indefinite detention without trial. So much for honor huh?
May 29, 2012 at 7:38 pm, Eric Koszyk said:
Well, I served and my girlfriend is in the military now and we are both voting for Obama. Romney is a phony who saber rattles when it is convenient. He also once proposed privatizing the VA. He would be a disaster for the US in general and for veterans specifically.
PS According to the May 13th Reuters poll, Obama is actually beating Romney among veterans.
Gallup is known for oversampling Republicans in their polls. I doubt if their poll is accurate.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/13/us-usa-poll-military-idUSBRE84C02120120513
http://www.vetvoice.com/diary/4876/vets-dont-like-romneys-plan-to-privatize-va
May 29, 2012 at 8:31 pm, Patrick Ryan Gentry said:
Actually if you read the Constitution the writ of habeas corpus is only guaranteed in times of peace.
The Constitution clearly states that in times or rebellion or national emergency it can be suspended, and it has been.
Lincoln suspended habeas corpus in the Civil War, it was also suspended in WWI and WWI in order to allow the indefinite detention of suspected German spies (also used to detain tens of thousands of japanese Americans in WWII)
It helps to know what the Constitution says before you criticize or question the honor of those whom die to let you have those rights.
May 29, 2012 at 10:50 pm, William Green said:
Yet we don't take these so called threats serious enough to declare war. We've had a perpetual state of emergency since '95. I think that excuse has been a bit over used. thankfully the states and the courts aren't buying it. "Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear — kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor — with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil … to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it by furnishing the exhorbitant funds demanded. Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened, seem never to have been quite real."
General of the Army Douglas MacArthur
May 30, 2012 at 12:38 am, Nena Espinosa said:
Eric Koszyk so is obama, have you not known all the broken promises? or you just pretend it's ok to deceive a country?
May 30, 2012 at 6:34 am, Nena Espinosa said:
Coming!
May 30, 2012 at 6:23 pm, Patrick Ryan Gentry said:
We as a nation declared a war on terror fighting wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan to combat the leadership of organizations that supplied or funded Islamic Terrorism.
Also there is a difference between national emergency and a State of Emergency, biggest being is one is a Constitutional condition to repeal habeas corpus when the interests of the nation is in severe risk, while the other is some word used by Governors to enact restrictions on a State level on movement or to force evacuation.
The closets federal term I know of is Federal Disaster Area.
May 30, 2012 at 6:27 pm, Patrick Ryan Gentry said:
The point still stands though that Habeas Corpus is only a Constitutional Right during times of peace, the US Constitution is not a suicide pact designed to leave the Federal Government powerless to defend the nation for threats.
Heck if you support this backwards ideology then the Civil War was unconstitutional and the nation would be divided eternally between slave and free states!!
June 06, 2012 at 7:07 pm, Lee Myers said:
Can you cook? Are you good in bed?
July 22, 2012 at 10:15 pm, Don Sullivan said:
You, "sir", are, indeed, a dumbass and your "facts" are suffering from acute inaccuracies!
August 15, 2012 at 10:39 pm, Eric T Voss said:
Curby William Graham I served, and I say he took a break during Viet Nam. So, did W.
August 29, 2012 at 2:05 pm, Lan Sy Ho said:
Laura Purdy I couldn't agree more. Obama is frightening. It is time for him to go.
October 29, 2012 at 3:07 pm, Gee Jimmy said:
Chicken hawks would have been fragged in Nam
May 28, 2012 at 3:55 pm, Stephen Esquivel said:
Atta by Mitt. Piece of shit.
May 28, 2012 at 3:56 pm, Stephen Esquivel said:
Atta boy!
July 21, 2012 at 10:11 pm, Charles Murray said:
I find it interesting that Mein Kamph was published when the author was 36 years old and Dreams of my Father when the author was 34 years old.
Neither one had accomplished anything at that point, wonder what could they do in the future ?
August 15, 2012 at 4:06 am, David Stallworth said:
Charles, you do realise that you're reaching here do you not? Your premise, whilst mildly fascinating, bears no logical nor reasonable outcome lest one happens to be some sort of conspiracy theorist and if that is the case there's also the conspiracy theory that purports to paint Romney as the coming Anti-Christ but I digress as there's another one which paints Obama in the same light. We all see where your viewpoints lie. Thank you for being so entertaining…
August 20, 2012 at 10:37 pm, Sam Bailey said:
People are free to write a book any time in their lives ,what could be your point ?
August 20, 2012 at 11:05 pm, Charles Murray said:
Some have really big egos even when young and unaccomplished but then there are a lot of l people who are altruistic, like Mitt Romney.
May 28, 2012 at 11:55 am, Bain Is Fair Game – WBUR | Danta Report said:
[...] Romney tops Obama with veteransUSA TODAYVeterans Give Romney Big Lead Over ObamaGallup.comTPM -Death and Taxes -Capital New Yorkall 174 news [...]
May 28, 2012 at 4:27 pm, Robert Kohutek said:
What a disgraceful article. I come from a long line of men who have given service to this great country. Because of their service, I now have the oppurtunity to serve it through non-military public service. While it is honor to fight for the freedoms and rights this country affords Americans, it is a greater calling to act as an instrument of peace and to do away with wars and contention. Because of the trauma it inflicts on our own soldiers and their families, war should always be the option of last resort, when our freedoms and rights stand in the balance. If you think that the office of the Presidency should be held by the supreme warmonger, you should have your head examined.
May 29, 2012 at 2:07 am, D. J. Pangburn said:
Did you happen to read the part of the article that was about Romney being a pro-Vietnam War activist?
No? Okay then.
Romney was not acting as an instrument of peace. He was publicly supporting the war as a conservative activist and meanwhile avoiding any potential draft by getting at least four deferments (one for his religion, and three for study, and father's political connections probably helped, too). Does this make him bad? No. Does this make him a hypocrit? I would say yes: Romney was calling for more war, which equates to more bloodshed—blood he was not willing to spill himself.
DJ
May 29, 2012 at 3:16 am, Robert Kohutek said:
As can be confirmed in numerous articles written about Mitt's "protest," Mr. Romney was not protesting in favor of the Vietnam War. He was protesting the disruption of classes and school administration caused by the protest. And we can all see the efficacy of a college protest because college protests directly affect the federal government's military policies. Secondly, your insipidly naïve assertion of pacificism, is a shameful tactic attempting place a boldfaced lie in my mouth. There is such a thing a just war and I specified the conditions, which is when or freedoms, liberty, and rights are at stake.
May 29, 2012 at 3:32 am, D. J. Pangburn said:
I never said there wasn't such a thing as a "just war," although I reject the Catholic (Aquinas, Augustine) conception of it, naturally. However, I don't think Vietnam was a just war. It was a civil war between the North and the South with the USSR and the U.S. using the north and south as proxies, respectively. We had no business in that territory. Neither did the USSR, nor France before us.
As far as Romney's counter-activism at Stanford, he was very clearly opposed to anti-war demonstrators. In your naivete, you may believe it was simply about avoiding disruption of classes and school administration. It must have been a very, very, very impressive demonstration in order to paralyze the university system. ha
DJ
May 29, 2012 at 4:14 am, Robert Kohutek said:
Furthermore, those of us who can trace their ancestry to those brave men and women who landed at Plymouth Rock recognize the value of the first enumerated right of the Bill of Rights: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. In Europe, my ancestors and the ancestors of many of Americans were repressed by monarchs, using their militaries, who supported a singular state religion. But, America is different, both the government and military answer to the people. Our Constitution was written to preserve the rights and freedoms of the individual and check the tyranny of the majority.
But how dare you pretend that the draft was in any way an act of patriotism. At night, my father, a former airborne range, would sit bolt upright in his and mime being shot at and shooting Vietnamese while parachuting behind enemy lines. WE as a nation renounced the draft because is clear abuse government coercion. We as a nation judged the draft to be so heinous because it callusly discriminated and deprived young men of their liberty, their rights, and their lives. So, again, how dare you assert that being impressed into military service, forced to kill or be killed, as any kind of patriotism. Shame on you.
May 29, 2012 at 4:55 am, Robert Kohutek said:
D.J., I am a published political scientist and have personally known Mitt Romney since 2000. As a trained behavioral scientist and over a decade of experience dealing with politicians I know when one is lying or "spinning" a story. Mitt comes across as stiff because he is a formal person who is all about the rule of law and order. Just as a boy with long hair would evoke his ire because it would be a violation of the school's rules, I assure you that protesters would likewise provoke a 1.5 year older Romney.
So, if you want a President who will actually uphold the Constitution, then Mitt Romney is your man. If you want a man who flouts the rule of law and engages our assets in Libya without Congressional approbation, then has used more recess appointments than the last four presidents, nullifies laws through.executive orders, then Obama is your man.
May 29, 2012 at 5:14 am, Robert Kohutek said:
If you concede that Vietnam was an unjust war, why then does Mitt's deferment bother you? Does it not make your point moot? Rationality requires that if you discover a belief to be.false that you adopt a true belief and adjust one's behavior accordingly. George Romney recognized the error of supporting the Vietnam war because he was working from false premises, why then can Mitt, his son, come to a similar logical conclusion, Or is this your inept attempt to link Mitt to his father's statements of the time? That won't work either, because George and Mitt are two different people. And in either instance your admission of the unjust nature of the Vietnam War still undermines your the premises of your claim. So, just admit you don't have a basis and just don't like Mitt.
May 29, 2012 at 6:01 am, Robert Kohutek said:
DJ, if the Vietnam war was an unjust war as you claim, why then would it be immoral for anybody to dodge the draft? Do we not have a moral obligation to oppose injustice? Martin Luther King jr. based the entire civil rights movement on the premise that an unjust law is not a law at all. If the Vietnam war was unjust, then any ancillary laws appertuent to it would also be unjust. Therefore, there is no ethical obligation to uphold an unjust draft for and unjust war. So, your central contention is moot by your own admission. Fundamentally, your remaining argument is that you dislike Mitt because he, like you, was a rational actor and acted on on beliefs consistent with his worldview when he recognized the unjustness of the Vietnam War?
May 29, 2012 at 1:24 pm, Patrick Pawlowski said:
I don't see where D.J. accused anyone of being immoral; the word he used was hypocrite. MLK didn't preach AGAINST civil rights and then drink from the "Whites Only" water fountain but Mitt was apparently in favor of the Vietnam war yet not only didn't sign up but dodged the draft as well. I'd say that pretty much defines hypocrite.
May 29, 2012 at 2:24 pm, William Green said:
People like Romney are real brave when others to the killing and dying.
May 29, 2012 at 2:27 pm, William Green said:
People like Romney are real brave when others do the killing and dying.
May 29, 2012 at 2:57 pm, Robert Kohutek said:
Your logic fails for two reasons: 1) If the Vietnam war was unjust and infringes upon the rights and liberties of those impressed into service, then dodging it becomes a moral imperative (British tea and stamp acts were lawful, yet Americans revolted) and any instrumental reasons for dodging it become moot. 2) Romney did not advocate the Vietnam War, he protested the theft of services instigated by ineffectual protestors. You also are quick to condemn rationality. Rationality demands that one act in accordance with one's worldview. When one discovers a belief or behavior inconsistent with one's moral worldview, one is obliged to correct the inconsistency and then act in accordance. I see nothing hypocritical about acting rationally. The definition of insanity, however, is repeating the same actions and expecting different results. I prefer that my leaders act rationally, how about you?
May 29, 2012 at 3:16 pm, D. J. Pangburn said:
Robert,
Romney's position on Vietnam and the Stanford protests has nothing to do with any ultimate conclusion of whether the war was moral and just, although you're trying to spin the conversation into that black hole to suit your own ends.
If Romney thought the war was moral and just, and if he supported his country's decision during that time (as he said he did), he would have found a way to get to Vietnam. He tried to have his cake and eat it, too. His two-year mission and academic deferments were at odds with his convictions. He was, in a sense, cognitively dissonant. Not to go off on a tangent here, but former Arizona safety Pat Tillman, a multi-millionaire and highly intelligent individual, thought the so-called "War on Terrorism" was just and enlisted with his brother. (Ultimately, he saw that he was mistaken about his support of Bush's wars.). Mitt, on the other hand, figured the best way to support the the Vietnam War was to spend a few comfortable years in Paris forcing Mormon theology down the throats of the French, as well as preparing for a career in private equity. If he were a man of conviction, he would have enlisted, as many other young men and women did during Vietnam (not all were drafted).
And here is a direct quote from Romney:
“I was supportive of my country. I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."
Thanks for reading, though.
DJ
May 29, 2012 at 3:17 pm, D. J. Pangburn said:
The Stanford counter-protest was organized in support of the Vietnam War. Enough said. This debate is at an end. I have writing and editorial duties and cannot sit here all day long running in circles with you.
May 29, 2012 at 3:20 pm, William Green said:
D. J. Pangburn “I was supportive of my country. I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."
Just not enough to put his money where his mouth was/is.
May 29, 2012 at 4:18 pm, Robert Kohutek said:
D. J. Pangburn, you can't be serious in your assertion that a young man who gives up 30 months of his life, at a pivotal age, to proclaim the gospel is lacking in conviction. Tell me when you have given up your home and family for two.and a half years out of religious conviction. When was the last time you spent 2.5 years having doors slammed in your face, yelled/screamed at, chased, threatened, occassionally robbed, and suffered all manner of indignities for sharing a message of Christ's atonement. Let's face it you're a Mormon hater and nothing more. If Romney were jewish you'd be antisemitic, and just because there isn't a word for it like antisemitism doesn't make your bigotry any less offensive.
May 29, 2012 at 4:41 pm, Robert Kohutek said:
William Green, you can honestly say you prefer a man like Obama who throws the Constitution out the window. Obama committed U.S. assets in Libya without congressional assent. He consistently flouts the sovereignty of the people by circumventing Congress. Not only has he directly challenged Congress and taken it upon himself to legislate from the Whitehouse, you can count the number of executive orders and recess appointments. As a member of the U.S. Amry, you should worry that a man who doesn't give a damn about the Constitution is going to just throw your life away. Regardless of what you "think" Mitt will carefully weigh the cost of American lives before committing them because he believes there is a higher purpose for man than war, so do not confuse empathy for cowardice. I dare say one who confuses empathy and religious conviction with cowardice isn't just stupid but is also ignorant of American history and our first enumerated right. I pray that the Lord keeps you safe, you have chosen to fight for men who do not care about the unjustness of their wars or your life.
May 29, 2012 at 4:51 pm, D. J. Pangburn said:
You, Sir, are a dunce of the highest order. It's rather entertaining, in fact.
My cousin was Mormon for a time. I didn't judge him — didn't feel the need to 'cause I believed he was free to believe what he wanted, which is a concept that is quite difficult for the believer to grasp. Eventually, he became an atheist, but this is all beside the point. However, I'll entertain your religious digression simply because it will perhaps be illuminating for you, as you clearly have no idea who I am.
I never had to do missionary work because my parents (conservative, religious folk) let me believe what I want. Assuming I had been a firm believer, though, I most certainly wouldn't have gone about proselytizing my faith to people who didn't ask for it; that is, getting in their face and forcing my metaphysical worldview down their throats. I don't believe that is right. I was raised Christian and did charity work as a child and teenager. In college, I did charity work as well. Now I volunteer at a place that raises money to help poor people infected with HIV/AIDS find affordable housing and get back on their feet. Do I claim, like all the faithful, to possess universal truth? Not at all. Do I tell these people what to think? Nope. It's not my right. Does the organization force them to adopt a faith in return for help? Absolutely not. What a beautiful notion!
A lot of people in this world believe they have the right to enforce their metaphysics, their creation myth, on various populations. I have concluded that this compulsion is a function not so much of love (though I don't rule it out to a very small degree) but a function of fear. Specifically, the fear of death and the fear of the "other": the individual or group who is different. I don't fear Mormons, I just reject any metaphysics that claims universal truth because we humans inhabit a planet that is but a single grain in a vast beach of sand. To believe in a universal truth is delusion. I chose to be rational and except the beauty of the universe on its own terms. I look at the universe and see infinite beauty, complexity and astonishment, and that is enough for me. I don't need a deity to help me see it.
Romney had a choice to decide if he wanted to believe the Mormon creation/revelation myth or not (or perhaps indoctrination is so strong that he simply could not live with the shame of leaving LDS)—either way, I don't feel bad for him at all. He also had a choice to help out in the Vietnam War after his mission in Paris was over, and he chose something else. If he were a man of conviction, he would have gone to Vietnam.
DJ
May 29, 2012 at 4:55 pm, William Green said:
Robert Kohutek, if you read my comments you will quickly see I made no mention of support for Obama. Funny how some folks jump to conclusions when they don't like what others have to say.
May 29, 2012 at 5:00 pm, William Green said:
Makes me wonder if you've taken the time to look into Romney's record, or if you are just jumping to conclusions there as well.
May 29, 2012 at 5:11 pm, Robert Kohutek said:
There you go resorting to.pathetic ad homenims which reflects very poorly on your intelligence and evinces your ignorance of logic. You also clearly demonstrate your lack of understanding the point of the Gospel. The Gospel is NEVER coercive. It invites men to change from the inside out. Having repeatedly been the recipients of such treatment and the UTTER FAILURE of the.federal government to intervene on behalf of their rights, Mormon will never hold a gun to anybody's head to force their beliefs on anyone–anybody who joins or leaves does so.of their own freewill. Now, as a dunce yourself you might claim that Prop 8 was Mormons foisting.their beliefs upon others, but the reality is Mormons were just fighting another group wanting to foist their lifestyle on others.
May 29, 2012 at 5:48 pm, Robert Kohutek said:
Arguing with an atheist is pointless. You have no beliefs and therefore no hope. You are like a building without a foundation or a ship without an anchor. You observe the faults of the world, but cannot offer any solutions because no "ought" can ever derive from what "is." Enjoy your life of cynicism and misery.
May 29, 2012 at 5:51 pm, Robert Kohutek said:
Mr. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot.
May 29, 2012 at 5:58 pm, Robert Kohutek said:
William Green, I've known him for 18 years. A good friend of mine married his son. I'm currently writing a book about volunteering with him during the Olympics, his gubernator campaign, and his first and second presidential campaigns while I finish my dissertation.
May 29, 2012 at 6:15 pm, D. J. Pangburn said:
Robert,
You attempt to set yourself up as some bastion of logic, but you sit there making all these assumptions about me, namely, "Let's face it you're a Mormon hater and nothing more." That's a fundamental violation of logic, wouldn't you say? And you've never acknowledged the argument made by me that this Romney/Vietnam debate isn't about the ultimate conclusion of morality and just war, but about Romney's hypocrisy. If he supported the Vietnam War, which he has openly said he did (see the quote above), thereby considering it just, then he would have found a way to help his country out, at least at some point after the missionary work was done (1968, I believe). The war went on until 1973. He had five years to head over to Vietnam and he did not. He felt it was better to lay the foundations for his personal financial benefit; which, of course, is his right but it means he didn't have the strength of convictions of, say, those who hopped a boat over to Europe to fight Hitler. His pro-Vietnam war stance was empty and cowardly.
Since we're going further and further off the rails with you introducing Prop 8, allow me to respond. This descent down the rabbit hole is entertaining.
Yes, Mormon money was behind the defeat of Prop 8, amongst other issue advocacy groups; although it also had much to do with a get-out-the-vote drive for Obama in the Latino community (Catholic), which contributed to the passage of Prop 8.
As far as gay marriage is concerned, though, gays are not forcing their way of life on you, Robert. They simply want the right to get happily married and be financially secure in that relationship, mostly to make sure that they have rights that you or I enjoy as straight individuals, and to feel accepted by the larger population. For example, gays would love the right to handle the affairs of their sick or dead spouses. You take this right for granted, and deny another human that right. This is America, not the Dark Ages. It's a civil rights argument, and you're arguing it from a religious point-of-view, which, of course, you cannot prove because you cannot deliver a deity into the legislature and get him (not "her," of course) to say that he harbors a very infantile and ultimately pointless cosmic hatred of gays.
Contrary to what you believe, the gay lifestyle and gay marriage wouldn't effect you personally. It is, as I said above, a fear of the "other." An anal-retentive paranoia of Pynchonian proportions. The gays are not going to storm down your doors and commence butt-fucking you in front of your children. Lesbians aren't going to stop you in the street and say "Hey, good, moral people, watch this!", then commence cunnilingus.
The planet is not going to collapse. The universe will endure. You will be alright!
DJ
May 29, 2012 at 8:10 pm, D. J. Pangburn said:
Robert Kohutek
I'm quite happy, Sir. My morality and ethics are firm. Plenty of philosophy and metaphysics exists that do not rely on religion and its fear of death and punishment.
Aside from that, I have plenty of beliefs:
I believe that people can and do perform acts of goodness without a deity.
I believe in the human capacity for empathy.
I believe in reason.
I believe in education not indoctrination.
I believe that people should read and experience all they can while alive.
I believe that the universe's beauty and complexity is wondrous enough.
I believe that helping others is a virtue.
I believe that donating time to charitable causes is to be encouraged.
I believe that no brand of metaphysics, whether philosophical or religious, should be forced on a population of people.
I believe governments should exist to protect people from those who would enforce their religious dogma on the world.
I believe that love is a constructive force, and it exists apart from religion.
I believe that treating our natural resources in a responsible way is essential to humanity's survival.
I believe extreme wealth accumulated in so few hands is not a good thing.
There's plenty more that I believe, but I'm not going to sit here and create an exhaustive list to placate religious arrogance and delusion.
Good day.
DJ
May 30, 2012 at 12:19 am, Nena Espinosa said:
D. J. Pangburn of course it makes him bad, and I mean REALLY BAD, he was calling for the unnecessary deaths of good men!
May 30, 2012 at 7:16 pm, Tracy DeJong said:
University of Utah? Could you be a Mormon? While many of us would approve of missionary service in the Congo or India as a suitable reason for deferment, Paris is not acceptable. I guess George Romney was high enough in the Mormon church to get Mitt the cushy assignment. Mitt does not deserve to be Commander in Chief. It is one thing for Obama not to have been of age for the draft, and quite another for Romney to favor the draft for others and wimp out for service in Paris.
May 30, 2012 at 11:12 pm, Robert Hord said:
Actually Robert the president has the power to basically start a war, just like Bush did with Iraq, without congressional orders, it just says that eventually congress is the one that must declare war(look up WAR POWER ACT of 1973) The president can commit force into another country, and can do so for 60 days, with another 30 days possible for withdrawal. Regan, Clinton, and Obama, have all violated the War Powers Act, Obama did it twice, once as you said against Libyan forces, and again when he sent the team in to kill Osama, but as you see he has the right, he just suppose to give congress 48 hours notice.
June 01, 2012 at 5:25 am, Rebecca Fine said:
I disagree. Mitt Romney was just like George Bush – the son of a wealthy, political father who was kept out of the Vietnam War because he was a wealthy white boy. Meanwhile, thousands of poor & black boys were killed so that the wealthy political class of which Bush & Romney were a part, could have their War. No way should Romney be Commander in Chief.
June 01, 2012 at 8:30 am, Robert Kohutek said:
D. J. Pangburn you list 13 beliefs, prove them. If you can prove all 13 of them empirically with an objective standard I will renouce Romney and vote for whomever you choose.
June 01, 2012 at 9:36 am, Robert Kohutek said:
Robert Hord, I am well acquainted with the War Powers Resolution of 1973 (50 U.S.C. 1541-1548; P.L. 93-148). Your argument would hold greater weight if any of the presidents you mentioned were justified in breeching the War Powers Resolution–G. W. Bush is the possible exception (Ostensibly, Al Quedarepresents a number of problems for the rule of engagement at that time because it is a disfuse network and not a geographically insular sovereign nation–but discussing complexity on the web is fraught with the inherent dangers of dealing with impertinent peckerheads who arrogantly insist upon their personal retrospective interpretation without acknowledging context or zeitgeist) It is not in dispute that under P.L. 93-148 the president has the preogative to initiate military engagement under the authorization of Congress or when percipitated by "a national emergency created by attack[s] upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces." President Obama did not satisfy these conditions. Section 4(a)(1) requires the President to report to Congress any introduction of U.S. forces into hostilities or imminent hostilities. When such a report is submitted, or is required to be submitted, section 5(b) requires that the use of forces must be terminated within 60 to 90 days unless Congress authorizes such use or extends the time period. Section 3 requires that the "President in every possible instance shall consult with Congress before introducing" U.S. Armed Forces into hostilities or imminent hostilities.
June 01, 2012 at 10:15 am, Robert Kohutek said:
Tracy DeJong you are committing an ecological fallacy in assuming a prevailing group characteristic is attributable to an individual member and it structurally weakens your argument. More agrieviously you commit a genetic fallacy. The genetic fallacy is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context.
The fallacy therefore fails to assess the claim on its merit. The first criterion of a good argument is that the premises must have bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim in question.
Your claim regarding Romney's mission assignment is also flawed. Your warrant is prima facie repugnant because it suggests your own ethnocentric bias alluding that the people of India and the Congo are heathens whereas the French are superior because they are white "christian" Europeans. Do you not suppose all men and women need to hear a the message of Mormonism if it is truly as important as Mormons claim, regardless of where one may live due to the accident of birth? Your claim is flawed by using poisoning the well tactics. Yes, George Romney was a prominent Mormon in 1969, but insinuation is merely defamation without substantiation. So I say, habeas corpus, i.e. produce the evidence of malfeasance. The burden of proof always rests upon the accuser.
June 01, 2012 at 1:57 pm, D. J. Pangburn said:
You are a delight, Robert.
DJ
July 26, 2012 at 6:02 am, Kim Herrington Gibson said:
Tracy Mormons do missionary work all over. They don't pick one country or one group of people to witness to. Secondly I have heard out of his own mouth things that Obama wants to do as far as the military goes and I don't like it one bit! Finally give the draft dodging a rest because Bill Clinton was a pot smoking, cheating, DRAFT DODGER and he was elected to be President. I personally believe there are worse choices than Mitt and Obama is one of them.
October 02, 2012 at 3:15 pm, Robert Kohutek said:
It seems to me that Romney was being a good Christian by obeying the Ten Commandments. I seem to recall that the first commandment is rather unambiguous: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." The second one is pretty clear too, God is a jealous god and He doesn't like people worshipping graven images–even very patriotic idols. You are in essence telling every devout American that they are wrong for placing God first in their lives. If we ever refuse to elect a man because he chooses to obey God, may God help us all.
October 21, 2012 at 1:08 pm, Sharon French Nault said:
Robert K. Tell us WHY there is a picture on the internet of Romney standing by a rally poster supporting the draft for the Vietnam war? I would like to hear an explanation of that picture, please.
October 29, 2012 at 3:05 pm, Gee Jimmy said:
D. J. Pangburn THANK YOU FOR THE CHICKENHAWK APPLICATION.
May 28, 2012 at 7:05 pm, Linda Guglielmo Norby said:
disgusting
May 28, 2012 at 9:53 pm, Bill Feldman said:
Ron Paul enlisted and served in the Air Force. One reason he is not so intent on starting intervening conflicts in other contries with no clear exit strategy. Mittens can't wait to bomb Iran.
May 29, 2012 at 1:16 am, Patrick Ryan Gentry said:
Romney did not dodge the draft he got permission to go on a two year mission from the age of 19 to 21 to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ in Paris France.
This 2 year period of service is something that all young men of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are strongly encouraged to do, if fact it is quite rare to find an LDS man whom has not gone on a mission, usually they are either converts to old to serve a mission or members whom have disabilities that prevent them from serving.
I am an odd case I joined while in the US Army (2003 – 2011) and because of my duty I was unable to go on a mission. Several of the other LDS members I knew in the Army had the same situation as well, and were unable to serve missions. I commonly joke I served in the Baghdad Iraq mission!
Utah though does have the lowest recruitment rates in the nation, LDS young men are preparing from childhood to be missionaries from 19 – 21 prime enlistment age. So return and join the military but really by then most simply move on to college and marriage.
I have known some LDS that decided to enlist in the military instead of going into the military (though this is not encouraged) and in many cases service members are allowed to suspend there military contract at 19 to serve an LDS mission. In fact one of the missionaries that served in my area of North Carolina is a Marine that is on leave of absence from the USMC to serve his mission, then return to the Corp.
Romney did his duty to God there is no shame in that, of the 20 (1955 – 1975 years that the Vietnam War lasted he was exempted from the Draft for 2 of those years 1966 -1968. Had he been called up in the draft he would of served with honor and dignity just as thousands of other LDS served in the US military in Vietnam.
May 30, 2012 at 12:36 am, Nena Espinosa said:
romney is a disgrace to our soldiers!
May 30, 2012 at 1:28 am, Patrick Ryan Gentry said:
I would disagree completely but that is the great thing about our Republic we can disagree. Unlike those poor souls in Syria dying by the hundreds for saying they disagree with Assad's regime.
I know that unlike Obama in Lybia Romney would of deployed troops under UN oversight to enforce the cease fire legally and with the consent of Congress.
May 30, 2012 at 6:32 am, Steve Giovanis said:
"Romney did not dodge the draft he got permission to go on a two year mission from the age of 19 to 21 to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ in Paris France. " The book of Mormon is not the word of God or the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a book written by a man, nothing more, nothing less.
May 30, 2012 at 12:06 pm, William Green said:
If he wanted to spread the word of "God" he should have been over there preaching to the men in fox holes. Instead he hid behind his religion, then had the nerve to protest in favor of forcing others to kill and die in the name of government.
May 30, 2012 at 7:19 pm, Tracy DeJong said:
Service in the Congo, India or Haiti would be an adequate excuse. "Service" in Paris is not. He is a spoiled brat with five houses. The Republicans would be better off running McCain or Dole again. At least, they are real men and not snide little wimps.
May 31, 2012 at 1:32 am, Paul H. Smith said:
Jealous, are we?
May 31, 2012 at 1:52 am, Paul H. Smith said:
William Green Having spent at least a little time in a foxhole (have you?), I'm not sure I would have welcomed someone preaching to me at the time, even if I happened to agree with what was preached. If you managed to read my earlier post, you will know that I "dodged" the draft the same way Romney did. I don't consider that "hiding behind" my religion, nor do thousands of other former Mormon missionaries from that same era, many of whom went ahead with military service after finishing their missions, as well as many who didn't. I think it is uncharitable and maybe even a little presumptuous to make that accusation about anyone without knowing them.
May 31, 2012 at 2:12 am, Patrick Ryan Gentry said:
Where one is called to serve is not up to the missionary, it is called by an Apostle of Jesus Christ and the missionary has no say or input on the mission they are going to serve in.
June 01, 2012 at 5:26 am, Rebecca Fine said:
No. He used his religion to get him out of a War that he was urging others to go to. He felt that his life was more important than the poor & black soldiers who were sent over in his place. He is a pro-Vietnam War draft dodger, just like George Bush.
June 07, 2012 at 8:33 am, Justin Furtado said:
Romney got a deferment for being a Mormon missionary but then came home and arranged a second deferment so he would never have to serve.
June 07, 2012 at 5:09 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
What I don't understand is that the Romney family has run for Commander and Chief at least three times, and to my knowledge, not one family member has been identified as having served in the armed forces. Most Americans can point to at least someone in their family who served. Why haven't any of Romney's five sons done any military service?
July 21, 2012 at 10:27 pm, Charles Murray said:
We have a snide little commey wimp in the White House now
August 20, 2012 at 11:59 pm, Charles Murray said:
Nena Espinosa – obama is a disgrace to our soldiers and this nation
August 29, 2012 at 2:11 pm, Lan Sy Ho said:
Ann Wisniewski Unless it was the requirement for the POTUS to serve in the military. Romney is running for president, not his kids. I served in the Marines and I don't want my son to join. It will be up to him.
August 29, 2012 at 2:11 pm, Lan Sy Ho said:
Nena Espinosa — How so?
August 31, 2012 at 8:03 pm, Robert J Gutierrez said:
Yeah because Paris France really needed Romney, the sacrifice……..amazing.
September 01, 2012 at 2:49 am, Mathilde Young said:
FYI: Clinton, Biden and Cheny all got draft DEFERMENTS… They are not DODGERS.. (Biden got FIVE of them).
September 01, 2012 at 2:09 pm, Mathilde Young said:
If 'romney is a disgrace to our soldires', then I guess Biden is a bigger discrace.. because he got FIVE deferments… And, as Yoda would say, a deferment does not a dodger make.
May 29, 2012 at 1:53 am, Paul H. Smith said:
@Ann Wisniewski — actually, during the Vietnam era it was fairly easy to get a deferment, whether for schooling, church service, or other reasons. Of a total of 27 million young men in the age range for being drafted between 1964 and the end of the draft, only about 9% (2.2 million) were actually drafted. And not all of these served in Vietnam (the majority of military personnel serving in Vietnam were actually volunteers). Romney had no special treatment with regard to draft deferments. Millions of other young men his age had the same options.
May 29, 2012 at 6:38 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
@Paul H. Smith, I think you are correct about the history. I have no problem that Romney did not serve in the military because many at the time received deferments or did not get drafted in the lottery. What I am a bit disappointed about is that Romney seems to be more militaristic than what I would expect. It makes me wonder, that's all.
May 31, 2012 at 1:29 am, Paul H. Smith said:
I understand your concern. I believe, however, you will find Romney to be relatively peaceful as a president (or at least, as much as that is possible in the tangled up world in which we live). He certainly understands that it is always cheaper to negotiate your way out of situations than fight your way out, and he has more experience in dealing with international cooperation than most candidates for president have, given his time with the Olympics. People often don't think about this, but his 2 1/2 years working among the French people from all walks of life as a Mormon missionary has value dealing internationally as well — he knows what it is really like to live in another culture and speak a different language than you grew up with. This is not a trivial qualification for someone who might lead the international relations of the most powerful nation in the world.
May 31, 2012 at 1:29 am, Paul H. Smith said:
I understand your concern. I believe, however, you will find Romney to be relatively peaceful as a president (or at least, as much as that is possible in the tangled up world in which we live). He certainly understands that it is always cheaper to negotiate your way out of situations than fight your way out, and he has more experience in dealing with international cooperation than most candidates for president have, given his time with the Olympics. People often don't think about this, but his 2 1/2 years working among the French people from all walks of life as a Mormon missionary has value dealing internationally as well — he knows what it is really like to live in another culture and speak a different language than you grew up with. This is not a trivial qualification for someone who might lead the international relations of the most powerful nation in the world.
May 31, 2012 at 5:38 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
I appreciate you pointing out Romney's international experience. I wish that Bush would have had a such on his resume. Perhaps we would not be in the messy wars that we have had to go through in the past decade or so. I am afraid, though, that Romney is very easily influenced by others who really do not always have the American people's best interest in mind. I think of how war has really become a business. We have military contractors who benefit from the selling of arms and the occupying of countries. Those who influenced Bush are the same ones influencing Romney now. I am not completely convinced that Romney's missionary work in France and his time heading the U.S. Olympics will keep us from getting more entangled in undeclared and unjustified wars.
June 01, 2012 at 4:00 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
Paul, I recall back in 1968, when a couple of dark-suited and tied young men in their early twenties came to our door who turned out to be Mormon missionaries. My husband and I invited them in and we had a very long visit with them. They wanted to convert us to Mormonism. When we questioned their belief that Blacks were sub-par humans and not going to heaven, they insisted that this was true. We knew then that what they were selling was not right. I know that the Mormons have since reformed their beliefs on this issue, but racial prejudice is what Romney believed in his formative years at the same time he was trying to sell this and other beliefs to the French people in the late '60's. No wonder he admitted that he could not convert anyone to Christ.
June 07, 2012 at 8:42 am, Justin Furtado said:
So Romney living in France is a good thing? But going to school in Indonesia is not? John Kerry serves his country with honor and gets swiftboated, Republicans tear down Obama because he wasn't in the military like McCain and now that he got Osama Bin Laden Romney is now considered better because he was a missionary in France so he understands other cultures?
Republicans give me a headache. We had a president who balanced the budget and gave us a surplus (Clinton) but during his presidency you guys where only concerned about what he did with a certain intern. You get a president that went to war twice by borrowing money from China and there was no tea party back then. Then all of a sudden you get a Democratic president who tries to make health care accessible to all and all of a sudden he's a socialist marxist? Bush implodes the economy and then because Obama wasn't able to completely fix the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression you consider him the worst president ever? I was alive in the 90's. Wasn't Clinton the worst president ever first? And before that Carter? And now the greatest president of the 20th century FDR (my grandparents still have his picture up on their wall) is being rewritten in Texas textbooks as one of the worst? And Reagan who both raised taxes and also blew up the deficit is now a hero?
My head is spinning from all the hypocrisy.
May 29, 2012 at 2:04 am, Paul H. Smith said:
@DJ Pangburn (the author of this article). I recommend you look up "draft dodger" in a credible dictionary. You will find you have misapplied it here. By your (mistaken) definition I would count as a "draft dodger" too, having managed to (legally) escape the draft during all my eligible years. Of course, then you might be embarrassed to discover that after my 2-year LDS ("Mormon") mission, I served 20 years in the US Army, including a stint with the 101st Airborne Division during Desert Storm. But I digress. Why do you think veterans _wouldn't_ be behind a level-headed presidential candidate who has a great deal of experience turning around losing propositions and making them work again? I can't think of anyone better to straighten out the mess George H. Bush started and Barak Obama has done nothing but exacerbate.
May 30, 2012 at 12:30 am, Nena Espinosa said:
Oh my goodness Paul H. Smith, you are sick to your bones if you think romney boy will do anything for the US. Worshiping his personal enrichment (not success, if it was success he wouldn't have so many people disgusted at him) has nothing to do with knowing how to turn a country's economical recovery, nothing! The only think he'll do is accumulate more PERSONAL greedy wealth!
May 31, 2012 at 1:30 am, Paul H. Smith said:
One big hole in your logic is the fact that running for office has already cost Romney much more of his personal wealth than he could ever make back from being president. If Romney was interested in becoming wealthier, he would be much better off staying in the business world, where he has considerable demonstrated success. The very fact that he is running for president instead of running a for-profit company shows that getting richer is the least of his motivations. In any case, there may be real value in electing a president who doesn't need to milk the system to get rich, because he already is. He would also likely be relatively immune to influence peddling, lobbying, and so on.
May 31, 2012 at 1:30 am, Paul H. Smith said:
One big hole in your logic is the fact that running for office has already cost Romney much more of his personal wealth than he could ever make back from being president. If Romney was interested in becoming wealthier, he would be much better off staying in the business world, where he has considerable demonstrated success. The very fact that he is running for president instead of running a for-profit company shows that getting richer is the least of his motivations. In any case, there may be real value in electing a president who doesn't need to milk the system to get rich, because he already is. He would also likely be relatively immune to influence peddling, lobbying, and so on.
June 07, 2012 at 8:35 am, Justin Furtado said:
A Republican immune to influence peddling and lobbying? That is exactly why he is going into the presidency. You don't get rich becoming President from your presidential salary. You get richer making backroom deals with the big businesses who already own your party.
July 21, 2012 at 10:07 pm, Charles Murray said:
Paul, you are correct, the draft was a lottery, if your number wasn't called you were not drafted
July 21, 2012 at 10:09 pm, Charles Murray said:
Justin Furtado That's wh obama is rich now
July 26, 2012 at 6:07 am, Kim Herrington Gibson said:
A few tidbits about Mitt Romney:
Personal Information:
His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney
He was Born: March 12, 1947 and is 65 years old.
His Father: George W. Romney, former Governor of the State of Michigan
He was raised in Bloomfield Hills , Michigan
He is Married to Ann Romney since 1969; they five children.
Education:
B.A. from Brigham Young University, J.D. and M.B.A. from Harvard University
Religion:
Mormon – The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints
Working Background:
After high school, he spent 30 months in France as a Mormon missionary.
After going to both Harvard Business School and Harvard Law School simultaneously, he passed the Michigan bar exam, but never worked as an attorney.
In 1984, he co-founded Bain Capital a private equity investment firm, one of the largest such firms in the United States.
In 1994, he ran for Senator of Massachusetts and lost to Ted Kennedy.
He was President and CEO of the 2002 Winter Olympic Games.
In 2002, he was elected Governor of the State of Massachusetts where he eliminated a 1.5 billion deficit.
Some Interesting Facts about Romney:
Bain Capital, starting with one small office supply store in Massachusetts, turned it into Staples; now over 2,000 stores employing 90,000 people.
Bain Capital also worked to perform the same kinds of business miracles again and again, with companies like Domino's, Sealy, Brookstone, Weather Channel,
Burger King, Warner Music Group, Dollarama, Home Depot Supply and many others.
He was an unpaid volunteer campaign worker for his dad's gubernatorial campaign 1 year.
He was an unpaid intern in his dad's governor's office for eight years.
He was an unpaid bishop and state president of his church for ten years.
He was an unpaid President of the Salt Lake Olympic Committee for three years.
He took no salary and was the unpaid Governor of Massachusetts for four years.
He gave his entire inheritance from his father to charity.
Mitt Romney is one of the wealthiest self-made men in our country but has given more back to its citizens in terms of money, service and time than most men.
And in 2011 Mitt Romney gave over $4 million to charity, almost 19% of his income…. Just for comparison purposes,
Obama gave 1% and Joe Biden gave $300 or .0013%.
Mitt Romney is Trustworthy:
He will show us his birth certificate
He will show us his high school and college transcripts.
He will show us his social security card.
He will show us his law degree.
He will show us his draft notice.
He will show us his medical records.
He will show us his income tax records.
He will show us he has nothing to hide.
Mitt Romney's background, experience and trustworthiness show him to be a great leader and an excellent citizen for President of the United States.
You may think that Romney may not be the best representative the Republicans could have selected.
At least I know what religion he is, and that he won't desecrate the flag, bow down to foreign powers, or practice fiscal irresponsibility.
I know he has the ability to turn this financial debacle that the current regime has gotten us into. We won't like all the things necessary to recover from this debt, but someone with Romney's background can do it.
But, on the minus side, he never was a "Community Organizer", never took drugs or smoked pot, never got drunk, did not associate with communists or terrorists, nor did he attend a church whose pastor called for God to damn the US…
July 30, 2012 at 11:08 am, Eric T Voss said:
Mr. Smith, I am not saying that Mittens would not make a good president. However, the fact remains he did not serve in Viet Nam, or at all, for that matter. I will not disparage the LDS faith, but it kept him from going to Viet Nam. You served and mission, then your country. You cannot deny that after the LDS mission, that is where your similarities end.
George W. Bush was even more ingenious, join the military, but serve in the Air Guard.
It matters, sir.
FAIL
August 20, 2012 at 11:47 pm, Charles Murray said:
and Paul, don't forget he made nothing when he ran the Olympics.
August 21, 2012 at 3:30 pm, Cathy Baumgardner said:
Please Paul H Smith do you really want to try to make that lie work. It is not about the money for Romney and you know it. He does not have to work for the rest of his life but can live off all his off shore accounts. He is in it for the power. The power to put laws in place so he can become even richer. He does not have even have the slightest clue as to what it is like to live as a hard working American and he does not care who he has to destroy to get the power of the Presidency
September 01, 2012 at 2:05 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Joe Biden got FIVE draft deferrals (google is your friend if you don't believe me)…. Who you gonna vote for NOW?
September 05, 2012 at 11:04 pm, Shannon Puskar said:
First of all Kim, if Obama were white (and I am not making this about race, just pointing out the obv) nobody would even be asking him for his transcripts… secondly, his birth certificate WAS divulged or were you passed out that day… third, giving money to charity is BS when he gets to write it OFF on his taxes, the only TRUE charity is TIME which Obama has dedicated MUCH of compared to Mitt (working on daddy's campaign isnt the same as helping poor people)… Obama sought to attain religion on his own… and if you had a brain in your head, you would research how we actually got into this mess… the same policies to which Mitt wants to retreat. Please read and note the date and stats in this article… http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fixing-financial-crisis Also, it may do you some good to look up some bills Obama tried to pass for job growth- which were BLOCKED by the GOP. Keep believing the lies…. it'll be YOUR loss
September 05, 2012 at 11:06 pm, Shannon Puskar said:
Kim Herrington Gibson Oh and P.S. Obama has been married to the same woman too… possible if Mitt had daughters, he would give half a crap about us… but he had sons so we will NEVER KNOW
September 05, 2012 at 11:07 pm, Shannon Puskar said:
Kim Herrington Gibson Oh and P.S. Obama has been married to the same woman too… possibly if Mitt had daughters, he would give half a crap about us… but he had sons so we will NEVER KNOW
September 05, 2012 at 11:30 pm, Mathilde Young said:
As I said below, economists are blaming BOTH parties for the economic crisis before Obama took office.. If fact, more are blaming Clinton's drive to increase home ownership as being the start of the crisis.
Regarding transcripts, people are asking for Obama's transcripts because there are RUMORS that he went to college as an illegal alien (even his own publicist in college wrote in Obama's biography that he was born in Kenya). So, if people are asking for Mitt's taxes based on rumor's started by Harry Reid (which is how this REALLY started), then people can ask for Obama's transcripts.. RACE has NOTHING to do with it. I'd rather stick with the real issues of the campaign though – i.e. the economy.
And, after Obama's FAILED stimulus (and the tax-laden Obamacare), who wouldn't be hesitant to pass any more jobs bills from Obama… (the stimulus added BILLIONS to the debt, Obamacare – upwards of a Trillion).
Romney is very charitabe. He and his wife started a Charity. That takes ALOT more time than writing a check. Also, Romney gave away his entire inheritance. And, hen Romny was with Bain, he closed down his firm and flew 30 workers to New York to look for the missing daughter of one of his colleagues.
And, I believe Obama attended Jeremiah 'God Damn America' Wright's church for YEARS… not just one Sunday….
I believe Romney/Ryan can succeed where Obama has FAILED. They have an economic plan that has been approved by over 500 economists (including 5 Nobel Laureates).
Lastly, it's not nice to insult others… That's liberal hate.. and it's bad.
October 11, 2012 at 1:32 am, Debbie Lambeth Page said:
Paul H. Smith Well said Paul. I wish we had more smarter Americans. I'm worried about my children's future with the current administration destroying all our rights. Praying that people will wake up and see what a wonderful person Mitt Romney is and why he is trying to help our country is because he loves it. He will be a better leader that Ronald Reagan. Obama or Michele have never loved America.
October 21, 2012 at 1:03 pm, Sharon French Nault said:
I would like to suggest Mr. Paul H. Smith to research The China oil company that Romney invested in and then research Iraq for Sale:The War profiteers. Just a suggestion but if you are afraid to I will understand.
October 31, 2012 at 12:33 pm, Andrew Carroll said:
Paul H. Smith Paul the paramedics are hear wake up "WILLIAR MITT R-MONEY" must have bumped the other 47% of your head. Oh by the way if he's elected PODUS he'll still be in Business with all those wealthy friends of his he owes big time.
May 29, 2012 at 3:59 am, Jane Manderscheid Wadsworth said:
When my husband returned from his mission to Brazil In time of Vietnam, he choose to join the Coast guard rather than be drafted into army. As he had been commercial fishing since age of four. He saved one mans life, at least – he choose That service as he had mariners skills, but my younger brother joined Army and went to Nam. I'm so thankful he made it home alive! Many LDS served their country and their God. I think the author is scrabbling to find some dirt to fling at Romney. My brother was for Mitt before too, but not because he is LDS as my bro is no longer sure there is a God
so he does not go to any church now, though he was active LDS before Nam.
May 29, 2012 at 9:06 am, 28 May 2012 | MormonVoices said:
[...] http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/183724/mitt-romney-draft-dodger-has-wide-support-of-military-veteran… [...]
May 29, 2012 at 11:15 am, Mitt Romney to secure GOP nomination today after Texas primary | Death and Taxes said:
[...] the scenes. Romney simply does not have defense bona fides to contend, although he does enjoy the support of 57% of veterans compared to Obama’s 35%.Romney will then have to argue that his expertise in private equity [...]
May 29, 2012 at 8:25 pm, Sara Stout Keiser said:
This article is another biased attempt to detract from the real problems facing this nation. Obama could have done so much but has done nothing but blame others even when he controlled congress for two years. We need someone who will actually do something to stop the decline of our nation both in the eyes of the world and in our own country. Name calling is lazy journalism.
May 30, 2012 at 1:42 am, Mick Roudebush said:
democrats.
May 30, 2012 at 4:18 am, D. J. Pangburn said:
I'm not a Democrat and I'm certainly not an Obama supporter.
When you've perused my author archive and familiarized yourselves with my spectrum of political, social and economic thought, then we can talk. Until then, I will not waste my time.
DJ
May 30, 2012 at 12:23 am, Nena Espinosa said:
It is a disgrace for people to even think of giving romney any benefit of support! The fallen soldiers must be turning over in their graves! Neither romney or robama have a thread of good leadership, they only have wickedness in their minds and hearts…if they have any at all!
September 06, 2012 at 9:57 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Biden got 5 deferrals.. guess you're not voting in November then?
May 30, 2012 at 7:00 pm, John J. Moss said:
Your article is right on. Another Chicken Hawk.
As for Obama.
In the president's Memorial Day speech, he talked about sheltering homeless veterans. At the same time his Justice and Veterans Department are fighting against returning the vacant Westwood VA facility to its original purpose of housing mentally ill veterans.
You cannot say one thing while doing the opposite. This is what people hate the most about politicians.
There is estimated to be 10,000 homeless vets just in Los Angeles. The facility in Westwood could put a big dent in this number. They didn't go on a mission to Paris. They slogged through the jungles of Southeast Asia. Someone in his administration should be looking out for their interest. I thought it would be the VA chief, but was mistaken.
June 07, 2012 at 8:24 pm, Karen A. Johnson said:
The Westwood facility probably needs to be earthquake retrofitted before it can be licensed and re-opened. I would imagine that the US Justice Dept and Veterans Admin. cannot override federal safety regulations. And, of course, the tight budget on both the federal level and the state level in CA precludes immediate action.
Maybe some of those millionaires and billionaires who are enjoying low low LOW tax rates can charitably donate the amount they've saved between 35% taxes and 0-to-15% taxes to help the homeless and mentally ill vets… (yeah, when pigs fly)
June 07, 2012 at 8:24 pm, Karen A. Johnson said:
The Westwood facility probably needs to be earthquake retrofitted before it can be licensed and re-opened. I would imagine that the US Justice Dept and Veterans Admin. cannot override federal safety regulations. And, of course, the tight budget on both the federal level and the state level in CA precludes immediate action.
Maybe some of those millionaires and billionaires who are enjoying low low LOW tax rates can charitably donate the amount they've saved between 35% taxes and 0-to-15% taxes to help the homeless and mentally ill vets… (yeah, when pigs fly)
May 31, 2012 at 7:40 pm, Mark Wilmoth said:
Romney WAS a draft dodger… he is in favor of wars… he never served… his sons never served in wars he is in favor of. The closest he got to combat was when he was 18 and he attacked a kid with scissors! He should be banned from holding any public office!
August 20, 2012 at 11:40 pm, Charles Murray said:
Draft dodgers went to Canada to hide from the selective service. In order to be a draft dodger you must have had a low draft number, Clinton and Romney were not in danger of being drafted therefor they can not be draft dodgers.
August 21, 2012 at 12:05 am, Charles McAdams said:
Correct to a point but both were old enough to go prior to the number system. After I came home from service and was back in college, My number was 328. I would never have been drafted, but alas, I was and it was really a good experience, but I served in Germany and had it pretty good. One may ask if I had help in getting that assignment. Hardly, I was the son of a factory worker and a home maker with little influence outside there own home.
August 22, 2012 at 3:50 am, Rena Milare said:
Charles Murray Though by refusing/avoiding going into the military, nethier one should have or should be able to hold ANY political office in this country, especially Commander-in-Chief!!
August 26, 2012 at 4:41 pm, Garrett Kilbride said:
Charles Murray wow even faced with facts , your indoctrination stands up, pat your angry daddy on the back. Copenhagen trailer school of ignorance.
if the tables were turned this would inexcusable.
August 29, 2012 at 6:00 pm, Charles McAdams said:
I am not sure I want to require a person to have to serve in the military in order to be president. Franklin Roosevelt would not have qualified.
September 01, 2012 at 1:22 am, Bunny McClure Hacker said:
Rena, it is not illegal to "avoid" going into the military. Fleeing to Canada after one HAS BEEN drafted is illegal because it is illegal. Obtaining deferments is not illegal and thousands of young men obtained deferments for any number of reasons. Pointless to wonder what 0bama would have done – he's too young to have been subjected to the draft. Apparently, though, being a young dope smoking cocaine snorter makes him far less subject to ridicule than a young draft-deferred student minister?
September 01, 2012 at 2:45 am, Mathilde Young said:
Joe Biden got FIVE draft deferments…. A deferment does not a dodger make (Yoda advice)
September 01, 2012 at 5:03 am, Sam Bailey said:
Charles Murray _ all of the poor draft dodgers WENT TO CANADA ! The rich folk dodge the draft while sitting on the beach or in their manions ! NOW YOU KNOW !!!!!!!!!
September 28, 2012 at 4:57 am, Mark Wilmoth said:
How can one get 4 deferments if they were not in line to be drafted? That makes no sense. *rolleyes"
September 28, 2012 at 4:58 am, Mark Wilmoth said:
Romney's deferments were not even legal, look it up. If you make up lies to go sip wine and eat snails in France, that is dodging the draft!
September 28, 2012 at 5:27 am, Amy Haas said:
Charles Murray – Romney applied for and was granted a special deferment offered only to Mormons so he would not be drafted. Just like his dad and his sons, none of em ever served our country, just their church. Look it up and stop spewing bs. Clinton at least protested the war, Romney actively attended anti-war rallies and picketed them in favor of the DRAFT that he dodged. Nothing at all honorable about that, just disgusting.
September 28, 2012 at 1:59 pm, Mathilde Young said:
You know what is disgusting is focusing in on THIS issue for the presidential campaign. First: Obama did things he should not have in college (like ILLEGAL drugs), but no one mentions that as a reason not to vote for him. Second: It’s like you guys are grasping at straws for some reason to justify voting for Obama… Cause Obama CANT run on a list of successes from his first term, cause the list isn’t very long compared to other presidents. The economy is STILL no better off than it was 4 years ago (unemployment, food stamps, poverty, etc). You’ve grown up liberal, but it’s OK to vote for Romney. He has a plan. He can fix this country. Romney/Ryan 2012
October 01, 2012 at 2:30 pm, Charles McAdams said:
To be president, one merely needs to ba born an American citizen, be 35 years old, and lived in the US for the last 14 years. I really am not fond of requiring military service, particularly at a time like the unconstitutional wars from Korea to Afghanistan. None have been declared as required by the Constitution under the first and second article. The only one conducted with any common sense war the first Gulf
war by George H. W. Bush who had a clear objective and when it was completed got the Hell out.
October 02, 2012 at 2:05 am, Amy Haas said:
News flash – due to voter suppression scandal – The GOP has officially stopped all further plans to try to register more voters in 5 (FIVE) of the 9 big swing states. They are all scrambling to wipe the stench of Romney and now speaking out against him in an attempt to retain their old positions….RYAN is actively campaigning to retain his seat in the WI Congree. All you Rombots just pack it up and go cry yourself to sleep on your huge pillows…cause the fat lady started singing this am.
Buh bye now!
October 04, 2012 at 1:52 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Another random News Flash – Romney won the first debate – hands down
October 18, 2012 at 2:43 am, Jim Vertein said:
Rena BS then should Obama be allowed to hold the office? Both used LEGAL deferments one for school and one for mission work. A draft dodger illegally avoided the draft
October 26, 2012 at 12:33 pm, Bruce Misek said:
Rena this is the first real statement I have heard the entire debate. If you did not serve you should not be Commander-in-chief!!! Especially one who lies about his father serving.
October 29, 2012 at 2:57 pm, Gee Jimmy said:
Charles Murray You get a notice to report for duty then apply for a defermet the low number was given in conjunction with the defermit. After age 19 it was all illegal under the mormon church as the church was not recognised as a church until 1978.
May 31, 2012 at 7:44 pm, Mark Wilmoth said:
What has Romney done for America? 1) Campaigns for more war. 2) Created more government mandates. 4) Passed laws attacking the 2nd amendment. 5) In favor of laws passed by congress and Obama that attack our liberties. 6) Ranked 47the in job creation 7) Uses offshore banks and investments to avoid paying his fair share of taxes. Gee what a swell guy!
May 31, 2012 at 8:32 pm, Tonya Tipton said:
If President Obama was a draft dodger there would have been commercials on tv all day everyday, fox fake news would have had a field day and there would have been vietnam vets coming out saying what a disgrace President Obama was.
June 01, 2012 at 2:46 am, D. J. Pangburn said:
Tonya,
The truth you speak here is so perfect that is sublime.
DJ
June 09, 2012 at 7:02 am, Sam Bailey said:
Most people (politicians) who jumped through every hoop in the world to avoid serving in the military ,have no problem sending someone else off to fight and die in one !After iraq ,why would any veteran support one of these draft dodgers ? This generation of war vets got sent to the biggest lie since vietnam and they made 4 or 5 trips ,if they were lucky enough to live through the earlier tours ! Some people are just willing to vote against their own best interest and voting for romney is against the best interest of everybody and anybody who has ever worked for a living !
July 21, 2012 at 9:55 pm, Charles Murray said:
and where did obama serve ?????
July 30, 2012 at 11:00 am, Eric T Voss said:
Do the math. He was a little young for Viet Nam.
August 15, 2012 at 10:40 pm, Eric T Voss said:
Charles, Obama served in a safe place, just like Mitt-ens.
August 19, 2012 at 5:38 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
I wouldn't call Chicago necessarily a safe place.
August 20, 2012 at 6:11 pm, Sam Bailey said:
WELL ,CHARLES ,He didn't dodge the draft and he didn't send anyone off to war because HIS lies ! People in their 50's didn't face the military draft ! I know because I was in the last of the american drafgtees !!!!!!!!!!!!!! He has never outsourced any american jobs to china !!!!!!!!!!!!
August 20, 2012 at 6:17 pm, Sam Bailey said:
That is people who are in their 50's now ,didn't face the draft back when they were draft age because they had stopped the draft !
August 21, 2012 at 12:00 am, Charles McAdams said:
He did not serve, nor was there a draft when he became of age. That question is now moot and not worth discussing. However in the 1960's and 1970's, when thee was the ability of the government to force you to fight and die against your will, the poor and middle class, if they objected to the war in Vietnam, had only a few options. They could refuse and go to jail, the could flee to Canada and go to jail if they returned or they could just go anyway, I was the latter. I was wrong and gutless. If you were Bill Clinton, you could manipulate the rules and not suffer, if you were like G.W. Bush and Mitt Romney you could give verbal support and have your rich daddy take care of you while others were dying in your place. That is the worst kind of hypocrite. Let somebody else die for their country.
August 23, 2012 at 12:21 am, Steve Giovanis said:
Too young to serve in World war II Korea. Nam. come on people get a over it. RMoney is NOT right for America. or any other part of the planet for that matter. I am not even sure he's from earth!?!
August 26, 2012 at 4:39 pm, Garrett Kilbride said:
Charles Murray he was medically 4 years old.
August 29, 2012 at 2:15 pm, Lan Sy Ho said:
Charles Murray —- You did not know that he commanded the SEALs team during the misison that killed OBL. He was there, man. In fact, the mission would be a failure if it wasn't for his leadhership.
September 01, 2012 at 2:00 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Joe Biden got five draft deferrals…. And a deferment does NOT a dodger make…
September 05, 2012 at 6:02 am, Shannon Puskar said:
Charles Murray … Obama did actual charity work right here in the USA. While Romney wants to use the "religious route"… the Bible actually has hundreds of verses pertaining to helping the poor… for those who have to help those who have not. You really think in your heart of hearts that Romney wants to "help the poor?" I THINK NOT so his biblical standpoint is total BS
September 05, 2012 at 2:16 pm, Ann Wisniewski said:
Charles McAdams Your description of the draft is exactly as I witnessed it during the '60's and 70's. What really disturbs me is that Romney actually demonstrated FOR the Vietnam War while knowingly avoiding the draft and not volunteering to serve. This should really be a measure of his character. Romney was not a conscientious objector of the war, but instead wanted others to take his place and die so that he could continue to live a life of luxury.
September 05, 2012 at 4:07 pm, Pamela Newberry said:
Charles Murray: The draft was eliminated decades before Obama would have be eligible.
September 05, 2012 at 5:07 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Ann Wisniewski Anne: Obama used ILLEGAL drugs when he was in high school and college. Does that disturb you???? Getting a deferral is legal… And, I'd rather see Romney protest FOR the war than AGAINST it. Maybe we should stick to more recent issues though.. Like how Obama has BROKEN alot of promises to this country lately. Bush #1 lost his re-election bid because of his broken 'no new taxes' promise. The same thing should happen to Obama (in case you didn't know, Obamacare is LOADED with taxes). Romney/Ryan 2012.
September 07, 2012 at 8:14 pm, Thomas Roundtree said:
Not the point, Romney evaded military enlistment intentionally. Really, Almost five deferments? He seems to petition though that the way illegal immigrants can gain american status is by serving in his U.S. military.
September 28, 2012 at 4:54 am, Amy Haas said:
You're all ignorant.
September 28, 2012 at 2:00 pm, Mathilde Young said:
best comeback ever…. NOT
October 01, 2012 at 5:44 pm, Steve Giovanis said:
Too young to serve in Nam, duh!
October 01, 2012 at 11:53 pm, Chris Mueller said:
Mathilde Young It does not to bother me that a young person tried pot or other drugs when they were young. Remember W. Bush was a proven coke user and is still an untreated yet "dry" alcoholic. As for Obama's promises, well grow up young lady, politicians make a lot pledges and promises, but they are only one branch of government. They can't deliver all they always promise. Faced with a huge economic crash caused by previous administrations it's a wonder we've bounced back so far in just 3.5 years.
October 04, 2012 at 1:45 pm, Mathilde Young said:
We haven't done much (if any) 'bouncing back'… Unemployment is still higher than it was when he took office.. and the actual unemployment number is higher, because alot people have given up looking. AND, alot of people are underemployed too.. (oh, and don't forget the poverty and food stamp levels which are at ALL TIME HIGHS) And, Obama could have delivered on his 'no new taxes' promise by sending Obamacare BACK to get the taxes taken out of it. He could have presented a BUDGET that cut the deficit. Too many broken promises.
October 17, 2012 at 7:43 pm, Bunker Ramos said:
South Chicago is worse than Viet Nam.
October 18, 2012 at 2:40 am, Jim Vertein said:
Except Romney wasnt a draft dodger, he used a deferment and was involved in mission work, just like Clinton used his deferment
October 22, 2012 at 12:17 am, Ann Wisniewski said:
Mathilde: Please specify exactly the taxes in Obamacare, except for the "fine" for those who get sick and seek medical care, but have refused to get insured. It will probably be difficult for the government to enforce this penalty, anyway.Medicaid use will eventually decrease with a more healthy and productive work force with Obamacare, thereby decreasing taxes spent on the poor.
As far as paying taxes in general, I would rather my tax money was not spent on unnecessary wars, occupying other countries and nation building overseas. I would rather build our nation's resources, including education, health, transportation, environment, and technology. If we get a Romney/Ryan and the neocon Bush leftovers running our country again, including the Tea Party, we will be going back to the middle ages within the next 50 years.
October 22, 2012 at 12:27 am, Mathilde Young said:
Here is a quick list (you can google "Obamacare 21 taxes" for more details):
1. A 156% increase in the federal excise tax on tobacco
2. Obamacare Individual Mandate Excise Tax
3. Obamacare Employer Mandate Tax
4. Obamacare Surtax on Investment Income
5. Obamacare Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans
6. Obamacare Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax
7. Obamacare Medicine Cabinet Tax
8. Obamacare HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike
9. Obamacare Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka “Special Needs Kids Tax”
10. Obamacare Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers
11. Obamacare “Haircut” for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI
12. Obamacare Tax on Indoor Tanning Services
13. Obamacare elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D
14. Obamacare Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike
15. Obamacare Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals
16. Obamacare Tax on Innovator Drug Companies
17. Obamacare Tax on Health Insurers
18. Obamacare $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives
19. Obamacare Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2
20. Obamacare “Black liquor” tax hike
21. Obamacare Codification of the “economic substance doctrine”
FYI: Several (e.g. the medical device tax) go into effect on 1/1/13.
October 26, 2012 at 1:21 pm, Jim Vertein said:
true and if Romney were one then there would be also but he isnt try to focus on the real issues here, record debt, record unemployment, low house costs, medium income down $4,000, wages down, prices of food, gas way up all under Oabma watch. focus people
October 31, 2012 at 11:45 am, Andrew Carroll said:
Charles Murray I Guess racisim is the new badge of honor for those who have never raised their right hand to defend and protect, our fawed constitution. I voulnteered and still have to experience racisim. Just think if I had learned the lessons of the many black soldiers ect. when they went off to fight fo a country that didn't respect their sacriices, when they retrned home (jim crow), then or even now. I mean really all we had to do was read the law of the land. maybe you hod learn the real american history his name is Crypus Attcucks, i it were'nt for him america would never have rebelled against oppression. Oh by the way I vouch for my new little brother PODUS Barrack H. Obama. I served in his place 1972-1975. I mean really all I ever wanted was for america to do was life up to its creed. Like most black americans I did'nt just vote for him because he was black, I did so because he was right for america. think america owes us that much. we've put up with over two hundred years of injustice, can't you deal with eight.
December 04, 2012 at 3:09 am, Brian Haggard said:
tonya if obama dodged the draft it would be covered up like bengahzi
June 01, 2012 at 5:28 am, Rebecca Fine said:
I suspect the majority of Americans don't yet know that Mitt Romney was a Pro-Vietnam War Draft Dodger, who like George W. Bush, used his father's wealth & political influence to keep him out of the War. I hope Obama & the DNC make sure the majority of Americans know by November that this man has NO RIGHT to be Commander in Chief.
June 04, 2012 at 1:05 am, Lorraine Woodson-Alan Dobson said:
As a Vietnam vet this always befuddled this
June 04, 2012 at 10:43 pm, Thomas Conward said:
this story is sicking this story tells me we have a big problem with white males.
June 04, 2012 at 8:09 pm, Byron Gon said:
I find Mitt Romney disgusting! As a former draftee and Viet Nam vet (artillery) Romney has never served and his sons have never served. Yet I've heard him and his like ie; Cheney Bush Limbaugh Hannity Gingrich Bolton all advocate the neo con philosophy of attack first with someone else's children and ask questions later. Then accuse Obama of appeasement and then when our Vets come home they advocate cutting our benefits(see the Ryan Budget). What a bunch of chickenhawk hypocrits that know nothing of the ravages of war.
June 06, 2012 at 7:11 am, Su Camarrari said:
Why is the print so damn small when you use FB to comment?
June 23, 2012 at 5:39 pm, Charles McAdams said:
None of this surprises me, they preferred George Bush, another draft dodger, over Al Gore, who actually went to Vietnam. The conservative continue to benefit from the myth that they are pro-soldier, even after the debacle of their two wars and the shoddy treatment of soldiers and their families. I thought the military was supposed to be smarter than us Vietnam era soldiers.
June 23, 2012 at 6:14 pm, Krishna Myneni said:
I wonder how the support breaks out among those currently enlisted.
June 23, 2012 at 8:33 pm, James Zehnder said:
Believe it or not I did vote for Al Gore in 2000.
July 21, 2012 at 10:00 pm, Charles Murray said:
Gore made movies in Nam
July 21, 2012 at 10:10 pm, Charles McAdams said:
He, at least had to go there to do that..
August 20, 2012 at 11:50 pm, Charles Murray said:
And yet a war HERO was mocked by a piece of crap like obama
August 29, 2012 at 2:00 pm, Lan Sy Ho said:
Do you have the same view regarding Bill Clinton's draft dodger starus? I did not think so. If one of the requirement that the POTUS must serve in the military, then we have something to discuss. Until then, all bunch of BS.
If Romney is unfit to be the CIC because he was a draft dodger, then Obama would be unfit as well. He could have served during peace time but he chose not. Think about that.
As a veteran, I will vote for Romney because Obama has 4 years to fix the economy, and he hasn't done it. Would Romney be able to fix it in 4 years? I don't know. But I will give him that chance. Obama has his and he blew it.
September 01, 2012 at 2:07 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Good post Lan. And FYI for everyone else: Joe Biden got FIVE deferments. If you're dumb enough to believe that a deferment means dodging then I guess you're gonna vote for Mitt because Biden got more deferrals than Mitt
October 21, 2012 at 12:50 pm, Sharon French Nault said:
John McCain was not mocked by anyone…..Palin was. After seeing Romney's tax returns the GOP picked Palin. (interview with McCain campaign adviser early this year).
October 21, 2012 at 12:59 pm, Sharon French Nault said:
Lan Sy Ho , GEEZ! I don't think Romney could fix the economy if he had a 'do nothing' congress that pledged to fight AGAINST everything that Romney wanted to do. OR use 'record breaking filibusters'. Gingrich stated in an interview that verified Republicans in congress (including Paul Ryan) had a secret dinner meeting the night of the Obama inauguration and pledged to each other to not work with the President on anything in order to make him a one term president. Research some and you can also find a documentary called, Iraq for Sale:The War Profiteers. Try Solamere Capitol, also A Peoples History Of The Koch Industries. Be prepared for a big surprise!
October 29, 2012 at 3:03 pm, Gee Jimmy said:
Charles Murray Gore was with the 20th Combat Engineer Brigade and served part time as a photo journalist. As I served 20th Brigade wounded and proud. Did you serve in Vietnam sir? You would understand the meaning of Hell.
July 03, 2012 at 2:17 am, Michael Smith said:
If the Democrats don't use this against Romney, they don't stand a chance. The Republicans wouldn't hesitate to use something like this. Now is not the time for high road politics; not against the GOP.
August 26, 2012 at 4:37 pm, Garrett Kilbride said:
I'm a combat veteran, I don't support him. People will ignorantly vote for someone just cause it falls under their party, Reguardless if the party has changed its face or the people full of shit. They will even justify their views with " well the other guy…" " at least its not…". and a good percentage will vote to cater to an "image" they need in their sad lives. Rightnow, there is a Combat veteran dying of agent orange, or plagued by unsettling thoughts, that he swallowed when his country asked him to. this is a richboy who things being a president is "just another" thing he needs to do, cause hes bored. these vets are falling into the fake-patriotic/nationalistic marketing those chickenhawks use.
August 29, 2012 at 6:00 am, Garrett Kilbride said:
lol spelling areas happen when im mad lol
September 05, 2012 at 5:25 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Thank you for your service to this country. But, I have to disagree with you. To me, Romney seems like he wants to serve this country. Obama seems like the one with the ego. Spewing lies and expecting people to fall for the 'Hope & Change' BS. Romney has worked very hard to create a plan to restore the economy and create jobs. His economic plan has the approval of over 500 economists (including 5 nobel laureates). I believe he can turn this country around.
September 06, 2012 at 5:08 am, Garrett Kilbride said:
Im going to have to disagree with you- IF Romney wanted to serve his country, he wouldnt have filed for 4 deferments during Vietnam, hes a chickenhawk because he filed to avoid service ( using his faith and school) then protested in favor of the draft. even now he panders to israel, ready to send more american troops into the middleeast-using fear to push it and allowing american soldiers to die for israeli interest. interesting NONE OF HIS 5 MALE SONS even looked into military service.one has to wonder the degree of patriotism in that household. our soldiers are worn out already from 2 REPUBLICAN prompted wars. and are economy ruined ( do to not fighting on a wartime economy) IF Romney wanted to serve, he had every chance to during vietnam, thousands of young men died in jungles and went off to fight- if he wanted to he would have. you need to question what todays "republican" is, and be smart enough to question. you only believe he can turn around this party because you are a republican by title and thats what you are- the inability to question the herd makes you a sheep- a lemming, not leader.
Obama has done alot more than broadcasted. turn off fox news and think for yourself.
- btw im a registered republican
September 06, 2012 at 8:59 pm, Mathilde Young said:
FYI: Biden got FIVE Deferrals…
And, I don't know why Romney protested for the draft… Obama admitted to doing illegal drugs during that timeframe in his life… Maybe all college kids make mistakes.. Maybe we need to stick to more recent issues, and not dig up past mistakes???
And, just because Romney is pro-Isreal doesn't mean he will start a war. And, I believe he is patriotic. Probably more so than Obama (remember that picture of him not putting his hand on his chest during the National Anthem?). Romney would not be running for president (and subjecting himslf to criticism/lies/etc) if he weren't. Speaking of patriotism, remember Michelle's quote about not being patriotic until she was in her 40s… If Obama wanted to serve, he could have joined the military too (I'm sure he could have served during Desert Storm or something).
Regarding the wars and the economy… One of those wars was needed after 9/11… And, economists are saying that the economic problems prior to Obama taking office were caused by BOTH parties. Most, in fact, give a slightly larger share of the blame to Democrat-created housing policies. So, it's not all Bush's fault.
And, I think Obama's policies have failed. The Stimulus FAILED (even Obama admitted it) and Obamacare is not good medicine (plus it gave us 20+ new taxes – which means Obama LIED to us – btw (he promised not to raise taxes on the middle-class)). Unemployment has been above 8% Obama's entire presidency and more people are on food stamps and in poverty than ever before. To me, that is NOT a good record.
Over 500 economists – including five Nobel laureates (Gary Becker, Robert Lucas, Robert Mundell, Edward Prescott, and Myron Scholes) have signed a statement in support of Mitt Romney’s bold economic plan for America. I have looked at highlights from the plan (not enough time to read it all), and I agree. It is time for a REAL change. Romney/Ryan 2012.
p.s. Insulting others does not make you look good either…
September 07, 2012 at 1:37 am, Garrett Kilbride said:
fine. your point on insulting is 100% valid. excuse me. but biden isnt out preaching a call to arms, and his son served in Iraq. romney is pro-israel due to the israeli lobby, kinda funny how "omg obama isnt so pro israel" makes headlines- why not any other country? people bitch about money loss , we basically pay israeli taxes- and everytime they start crap, they add "we" to the debate- its like no buddy- you YOU , isreali policies- its like the dumb friend assclown you bring to the bar, that cant hold their liquor- while britian and america are trying to have a drink, israel keeps shouldnt crap at other tables- then hiding behind us.
September 12, 2012 at 8:45 pm, Jim Houston said:
And once again, the question is…..where did Obama serve?
September 12, 2012 at 8:47 pm, Jim Houston said:
For the record, I served with 7th SFG during Grenada and Panama and with 5th SFG during Desert Shield and Desert Storm.
September 12, 2012 at 10:58 pm, Garrett Kilbride said:
but is biden in the news pandering to israel? is he pandering to the lobby or the instigation? are they willing to send AMERICAN young men and women to die, for israeli plans? look up the term "chickenhawk"- its one thing if the service isnt for you, its another to dodge and volunteer the brave. obama was an infant during vietnam, by the time those conflicts happen he was on his way to other things in life, past the common enlistment age brackets. and obama is cutting the heads off of the terrorist networks- but no on notices because hes not cool with the realtree pickup truck crowd. you can fit those images, but ask yourself : gordon gekko wants to please his lobby, so send some other persons kid to die for some other countries interest. furthermore, im not even gunna disclose who im going to vote for, dont assume its obama. im just pointing out the difference. look up "greater israel" and ask yourself some questions about recent events and history. Im american, not israeli, but why is it such a big deal in matters of israel? why not our other allies? why not germany? or other middleeasten countries? why not japan? or our african allies? why is it theyre plans special above others? we have many allies in the world ya know. do you think the israeli people wanna live in a state of war all the time? beautiful culture being run by old wars.
September 12, 2012 at 11:02 pm, Garrett Kilbride said:
Once agian i speak 100% purely for myself, and not arguing but having a respectful adult talk, which i think its cool you have the points you do.
September 21, 2012 at 8:01 pm, Amy Johnson said:
Any "man" who received military deferment based upon his Mormon religion, yet still adamantly states he supports War vets, is a HYPOCRITE! Somebody I would want to keep as far from Commander in Chief as Possible. Mitt Romney canNOT be trusted. He is the typical "yes man"- saying exactly what he thinks others want to hear. Our nation's leader should not be chosen through a "popularity" contest!
September 21, 2012 at 8:17 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Joe Biden got FIVE draft deferments (more than Romney). It doesn't matter if it was for school, work or ministry. Their deferments were 100% LEGAL.
Obama has already won the popularity contest.. He is the Entertainer-in-Chief… Constantly appearing with celebs and on talk shows. Even while violence in Libya was going on. We need to vote on the issues. Like who can fix the economy. Obama had 4 years and most economic indicators are the same (or worse) than when Bush left office (e.g. Unemployment rate, # of people in poverty, # of people on Food stamps, etc).
It is Obama that can't be trusted… He is STILL blaming the Republicans and Bush (even today… Blaming F&F on Bush when Brian Terry died in 2010! That is a hypocrit for you). Obama has LIED too many times to be trusted. He promised no new taxes and Obamacare has 21 in it… That is a BIG lie… Too many other lies to list.
Time for the RIGHT change -Romney/Ryan 2012
September 21, 2012 at 8:39 pm, Garrett Kilbride said:
4% unemployment when bush entered- 8% when he left. 2 wars fought on a anything but wartime economy.4 trillion in debt when bush left- a debt to china. and a stubborn rep congress. how did obama lie? cause when i get the time to write , i can shut down this sites server with the amount of factual data on republicans lying. i wasnt for the iraq war, but i served the people who voted for the leaders. it was about keeping my word and oath. if i took that time for my self id be better off in life, happier. but servants to the nation dont get that- the service is the reward. i had to find reasons "well at least saddam and his sons are gone" . no shoes will be thrown at me.
September 21, 2012 at 8:50 pm, Garrett Kilbride said:
biden got deferments- but do you see him war talking for other countries plans? and when gadaffi had his bs happening, everyone was like "see see obama does nothing" – obama gets rid of gadafii – " see see what he did , horrible" just cant win. id hate to be the president.bush caused problems for the next 40 years- its safe for anyone to blame him till them. i dont see obama rushing troops in places to win votes or make lobbiest smile- that alone earns my respect.
September 21, 2012 at 8:56 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Garrett: First: Thank you for your service to this country (I don't remember if I thanked you before).
Obama lies ALOT.. a FEW examples.. He promised to cut the deficit in half during his first administration (none of his budgets came close!). He promised no new taxes for the middle class (Obamacare has 21 taxes – most of which affect the middle class). He promised transparency (we never got to see Obamacare before it was passed). He promised green jobs (Solyndra was a failures). Those are just a few… Even today Yahoo had an article about him lying about Fast and Furious: http://news.yahoo.com/president-obama-falsely-claims-fast-furious-program-begun-154000510–abc-news-politics.html?bcmt_s=m#ugccmt-container
Obama lacked the skills and Charisma necessary to convince Republicans and Democrats to work together (some people call that Leadership). Instead we get grandstanding with Obama saying he won’t work with Republicans unless they raise taxes on the rich.
Obama even stopped blaming George long enough to say he would have the economy fixed in 3 years or his presidency would be a 'one-term proposition' (his words, not mine. If you don't believe me, look it up). So, either he was too stupid to know what he was doing when he made this promise and should not run for re-election, or, he simply keep his promise and not run for re-election.
Have a nice day.
September 21, 2012 at 9:00 pm, Amy Johnson said:
It seems to me that what has been lost throughout all the tumultous debates, etc.. is the true reason our economy is in the demise that it is. I recall- this is largely in part due to the misdirection of 8 worthless years of "service" from a certain Bush.
Common sense will tell you that "change" takes time. Upon receiving the presidency at one of the most unstable times in our history, Obama has done what he can do with limited resources as well as tending to the multitude of numerous issues that nobody seems to clarify with orders of importance. The fact stands and remains that these problems were evident far BEFORE Obama took office.
"After examining Romney's proposal, the non-partisan Tax Policy concluded that households with incomes exceeding $200,000 would receive tax cuts; meanwhile, taxes would rise for the other 95% of the population. Taxpayers making more than $1 million would receive an average cut of $87,000; those under $200,000 would pay an average of $500 more. Romney denies that he would raise taxes on the middle class but has provided no evidence that the Tax Policy Center's analysis is wrong." **Typical Republican thinking**
And, finally, I have a hard time putting MY faith behind a person who chooses to follow in the Mormon "faith", that is highly recognized for it's involvement and acceptance of "plural marriage" a.k.a. Polygamy. Once again, hypocritically humorous.
I support our nation's president and will continue to do so, and will relent in feeding into the "negative begets negative" behavior demonstrated by those around me. We must work together- not against one another in order to succeed in any realm of life as we know it!
September 28, 2012 at 2:19 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Your recollection is not entirely correct. A lot of economists are saying that the economic problems prior to Obama taking office were caused by BOTH parties. Most, in fact, give a slightly larger share of the blame to Democrat-created housing policies. It's the liberal media who made Bush out to be the bad guy… And, if Bush should be the fall guy for his administration, Obama should be the fall guy for his, because he FAILED to turn things around like he promised.
And, if it takes more than 3.5 years to fix the econimy, why did Obama tell Matt Laur he would have the economy fixed in 3 years or his presidency would be a 'one-term proposition' (his words, not mine. If you don't believe me, look it up) – Either he was not smart enough to know what he was doing when he made this promise and should not run for re-election, or, he simply keep his promise and not run for re-election.
Regarding religion, for YEARS, Obama went to the church of Jeremiah 'God Damn America' Wright. Obama has NEVER tried to convert us to that way of thinking and Romney won't either. Give the religion garbage a rest.. it's like you're grasping at straws to find a reason NOT to vote for Romney.
Where are Obama's PLANS to fix the economy? Whatever plans he had 4 years ago (did u see them?) didnt work. Does he have a details (155+ page plan), or do you just trust him (even after all his LIES (e.g. no new taxes)). FACT Check checked the claim that Romney will raise taxes on the middle class. It was proven false. The only person to raise taxes on the middle class has been Obama, via the 21 new taxes in Obamacare. most of the taxes go into effect AFTER the election. I wonder why?
Obama has repeatedly LIED to us. He cannot be trusted.
Romney/Ryan 2012
October 02, 2012 at 12:01 am, Steve Giovanis said:
Romney isn't a Christian.He's a member of a cult. And president Obama, despite the best efforts of right wing nut jobs is a Christan .And has this nation on the right path. Despite the best efforts of the KKK-publicans and Teapublicans
October 02, 2012 at 2:46 am, Garrett Kil said:
I was reading an article about up and comming bussiness plans, it said that the mormon faith was more of a 'company' in its daily dutys- i dont know much about them but its an interesting fact. HEY HOW BOUT THAT VOTER suppression- KINDA odd how it tends to be around NOW and in majority republican states and republicans are also being questioned AGAIN in florida. crooked to the core always has
October 04, 2012 at 2:03 pm, Mathilde Young said:
I'm not sure why you are bringing up religion… Romney is a Mormon and Obama went to the church of Racist Jeremiah 'God damn America' Wright.. but NEITHER candidate has tried to covert us to their religion… so, it is NOT an issue in this campaign.
October 04, 2012 at 2:04 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Garrett Kil And for random news flashes – how about Fast & Furious being linked to even more deaths… and how about that cover up in Libya… can you say Watergate?
October 21, 2012 at 12:38 pm, Sharon French Nault said:
Mathilde Young, You are beginning to sound like a 'troll'. If you want to vote for 'him' go ahead. Don't try your troll tactics on others. Whatever you post about Obama being a liar can only hurt Romney because people are really getting a bit tired of the bashing. Your trolling is not going to change Obama supporter's thinking. I'm not calling you names, I'm telling you what reporters call people that keep posting things by bashing one side. They are called trolls and try to scare people into changing their minds. JUST VOTE!!!
October 21, 2012 at 10:11 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Obama himself is participating in the bashing… ever heard of Romnesia… maybe Obama is a troll
October 29, 2012 at 2:59 pm, Gee Jimmy said:
Mathilde Young Sorry but you need to do some heavy research on Romneys backgound. You at this point are entertaining his TV ads.
October 29, 2012 at 4:58 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Sharon: Sorry you can't handle the TRUTH… Some people stick to their liberal news sites and hate it when others come on and try to correct inaccuracies in the reporting… that's too bad…
October 29, 2012 at 9:19 pm, Garrett Kil said:
Mathilde Young "can you say watergater?"- sure if i was trying to make a pathetically desperate attempt to spin tragedy in republicans favor. lemme guess you actually believe all you hear about 9/11, yet question everything opposing parties do- because thats your political title , youre social " wobbie" , because you need a title to define who you are. to weak to question what youve been told. "omg boo hoo obama didnt solve all my problems.. its hightime for a change!" "duhh republicans are for NRA- NRA are for guns (even though mitt passed an assualt rifle band) guns are used by troops- so if my republican trailer logic serves me right republicans= for troops, and for troops is patriotic" morons
Libertarian party 2016
October 31, 2012 at 12:07 pm, Andrew Carroll said:
Mathilde Young I guess you are under a spell also. I mean do yo really trust someone you don't know and can't possibly know you. Maybe you should trust me then. Or at least hear me, if "WILLIAR Mitt Romeny (Everytime he opens his mouth, about everything) is elected PODUS you and I (99%) won't even matter, it won't be a war of the classes, it will indeed be a class war the rich vs poor. its called anarchey, thats a war, its obvious they will win because 47% will believe his BS. I don't call him "Williar M. R-MONEY" for nothing better do your Viet Nam research and turn off the "FOX BLUES CHANNEL". ROMNEY agrees with everything he'knows nothig about, so he does'nt feel left out. The world We live in he's A "PLASTICMAN". Better stick with the one you know!!!!!
October 31, 2012 at 12:10 pm, Andrew Carroll said:
Mathilde Young Patriotisim and pride mean you fight for what yu believe in, not what someone tells you you believe in. don't get the two confused
August 29, 2012 at 6:06 pm, Mark Wilmoth said:
Romney is really pro American… he got rich from Bain Chinese slave labor, he invests overseas instead of in America, he flies the Cayman Island flag on his yacht. People will fall for anything on TV!
September 01, 2012 at 2:44 am, Mathilde Young said:
Joe Biden got five draft deferrals…. where is that info in the article? And a deferment does NOT a dodger make…
September 03, 2012 at 12:52 am, Al Brown said:
Woosie Obama would have been killed as soon as his feet hit the ground in Vietnam.
September 03, 2012 at 10:31 pm, Mary Ann Gisburne said:
I was in college during the Vietnam war. I didn't know of anyone who wanted to go or of anyone, having been there, who glad that he was drafted. My brother had a teacher's deferment. The draft lottery, first done in 1969 for those born 1944-1950, and then yearly, was based on birth date. Romney's draft number was 300. John Wayne, by the way, did not volunteer for WWII, instead focusing on his acting career, which was starting to take off. He was 34 and had children, but did other movie stars, like Henry Fonda.
September 04, 2012 at 1:46 am, Bill Bojanowski said:
John Wayne took a lot of criticism for that, too. Many celebrities, actors and athletes, volunteered, in spite of their careers. This was not the case for the Viet Nam War. Most rich folks and celebrities found ways to dodge the draft, or used their influence to get in the Reserves or National Guard. I knew people who believed that the Vietnam War was a justifiable war and joined with no regrets. In my opinion, those that were able, but refused to serve, and were advocates for the war, should get no respect, and should not be voted into office to send our young people to the hell that is war.
September 07, 2012 at 10:12 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Not sure if you guys read this in the comments above, but Joe Biden got FIVE deferrals (more than Mitt)… Just FYI: If that's the criteria you're using to vote this election
September 07, 2012 at 10:17 pm, Bill Bojanowski said:
But Biden didn't advocate for the war that he got deferments for. Romney was for the Viet Nam War.
September 12, 2012 at 4:04 am, Enrique Romero said:
So how many supporters does draft dodger Joe Biden have.
September 12, 2012 at 4:24 am, Paula Johnston said:
They're desperate, and they have nothing legitimate to argue. As a member of the military, I would be proud to have Gov Romney as my commander in chief.
September 15, 2012 at 1:08 pm, Jeane Frandsen said:
I would think with 5 sons at least one would have served this country but, look at his recod 3 deferments! I have only one son, who is in the military. just saying.
September 28, 2012 at 4:42 am, Amy Haas said:
Lol at Tonya. Ignorance is bliss. Mormons think Christians are all heathens that are going to hell. Romney dodged the draft not once but four times with a special deferment offered only to Mormans and then he frolicked on French beaches while hiding from the war and THEN he picketed anti war protests in FAVOR of the draft, which he dodged. All the men in my life are VETs and none of them are in favor of this corporate pig!!! And that my friends is a fact.
September 29, 2012 at 6:18 pm, Lyle Wood said:
It is so far beyond me how any ex-military person can support Romney that it's like trying to see the end of the universe through the bottom of a Coke bottle. Both the President and his wife have been working hard for returning vets…to get them health care, education, housing, and other necessities of life. Thanks to their efforts private industry has hired thousands of returning vets who otherwise would be unemployable ("My specialty? Bomb defusing."). The Presdient effectively ended the Iraq war, is drawing down the troops in Afghanistan and has decimated Al Quida. What has Romney done? Well, he protested against the Vietnam war protesters, encouraged his peers to "join up," and then moved into a mansion in Paris, drew hearts on the beach at Normandy and posed for pictures. He avoided the draft by getting a "Morman deferment." Then he said he was in favor of cutting the military budget. Then he said he was in favor of increasing the military budget. Then he said he was in favor of cutting the military budget. Then he said he was in favor of increasing the military budget again. What the..
September 30, 2012 at 2:15 pm, Gale Souder Borota said:
Your brain must be the size of a pea.
September 30, 2012 at 5:50 pm, Lyle Wood said:
Is that it? That's all ya got? I don't understand why when someone disagrees with a right-winger they immediately get personal and start flinging insults. I would never tell you that your brain is the size of a pea. Outside of that being extremely insulting to peas, why would I do that? It's like calling feminists "femi-nazis," or environmentalists, "tree-hugging wackos." But i guess that's what people do when they run completely out of cogent thought, facts and legitimacy…they insult.. because…well… facts are hard. "Oh, yeah? Well….your mom wears combat boots." How sad. It's like when I talk about global warming with right wingers who deny it and even cite data from NOAA-18 and the AIM satellite studying the aeronomy of ice in the mesosphere, I usually get, "oh, yeah, well… I don't believe it 'cause Rush Limbaugh says it ain't true." Rush Limbaugh, radio personality and back up Goodyear blimp, told me in 1986 at an NAB convention that he calls his followers "Ditto Heads" because they let him do all the thinking for them and that makes him millions. You like Rush? I'll bet you do.
September 30, 2012 at 6:44 pm, Gale Souder Borota said:
If Obama can say ugly things why can I he throw insults , lies to the American people. You can insult me but do not use Mom in any of you insults. I watch Fox new and also flip to the others to see what lies they are spreading today. And I do listen to Rush everyday second handed as my husband listen everyday to the radio. What else do you want to spit out because I'm done with you and your thoughts. We do not agree and this is perfect because it is the reason we are free and able to disagree in the great America we are so lucky to live in as I saw enough Europe left over from the wars of the past.
September 30, 2012 at 11:11 pm, Lyle Wood said:
Hey, I simply commented on a DT article…I wasn't talking to you. You're the one who insulted me. Remember, the "pea brain" comment? And, by the way, I said nothing about your mom. "Oh, yeah? Well….your mom wears combat boots" is an old comeback that grade school kids used to use back in the 50's.Are you having trouble comprehending what you read? I suggest vitamins. Take the kind Rush advertises… after all, you're repeating very, very well everything he tells you to repeat. You're a super good ditto head. Be proud, buy his vitamins. And, of course you watch Fox News. With their 30% factually correct rating you'd be a fool to not get your news from them because we all know that being 30% right is over 20% better than being 9% right. And, you are absolutely correct about the wars being fought in Europe. They were. And I agree totally with you that you should be done with me and my thoughts, Sweetie, they're got to be awfully frustrating for you. Australopithecus didn't play chess, either, but through no fault of his own. So, live long and prosper, Gale, whoever you are. I wish you all the best.
October 01, 2012 at 10:35 pm, Gale Souder Borota said:
you don't remember me that hurts! Good by my friend I've enjoy the combat experience and what is great about America we all are able to think what we want and maybe I do need vitamins I'll have to check into it. Have a good week looking forward to your next bit of news. We know one thing someone got to win and I've decided you might give them a run for their money.
September 29, 2012 at 6:35 pm, Andrew Bennett said:
Check the facts Mitt Romney is a dam draft dodger. he left south vietnam to fend for themselves.
October 06, 2012 at 7:31 pm, Natalie Alexander said:
He was no draft dodger, a lottery system was used. The 1969 lottery was very fair. Romney's number was 300 that matches the birth dates of all American males born on March 12 in the years between 44 and 50. The military didn't call any number higher than 195. Before the lottery system, he was too young to serve and getting rid of local drafts boards and starting a national lottery was done in order to prevent dodging.
October 06, 2012 at 7:40 pm, Scotti Gaylord said:
I was in the very next year of the draft and my similarly high number was never called. Thankfully.
October 18, 2012 at 2:39 am, Jim Vertein said:
First of Romney wasnt a draft dodger he received a deferment for mission work, a draft dodger avoided the draft and went to a foreign country, just like Clinton wasn't a draft dodger.
October 26, 2012 at 10:24 am, Jim Casada said:
All my military & vet buddies should read this article.
October 29, 2012 at 5:09 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Make sure you mention it's a LIE. Romney did NOT dodge the draft, he got deferments. Joe Biden got MORE deferments than Romney did.
Also, ask them about their TriCare benefits. I've seen several vets complaing about how much the costs have increased under Obama.
October 29, 2012 at 6:38 pm, Jim Casada said:
But all those bills raising Tricare co-pays & cutting benefits were originated & sponsored by the Republicans, and now they are pushing to change retirement to a 30yr plan. Romney says he wants to expand the military it arms & hardware, but he doesn't want to pay for the personnel to man things. Good for defense contractors, but not good for my fellow solders & sailors.
October 29, 2012 at 6:53 pm, Mathilde Young said:
Obama has VETO power doesn't he? And, I'd rather see an expanding military than a decreasing one like Obama wants.
October 29, 2012 at 7:10 pm, Jim Casada said:
I'm not really a big Obama fan neither, but electing Romney would absolutely be a big mistake for military folks & their dependents. As the saying goes "better the devil you know…"
October 31, 2012 at 9:22 pm, Garrett Kil said:
damn I lost the fire to argue this point months ago, on to other things – so if it makes you feel better you all win, agree or disagree or whatever- I'm a liberaterian.HURRICANE SANDY- Obama's fault. worst president ever.It's high time for this hurricane starting president to go, causing hurricanes is not the type of president I want. We cant have four more years of Hurricanes. this hurricane making president has to go. his non-hurricane starting policies have failed. worst hurricane ever. don't use katrina as an excuse, obamicane.
June 18, 2013 at 3:33 am, Dennis Smith said:
What branch of service did Obama Volunteer for?