Christianists Celebrate HS Graduation by Persecuting Senior Who Believes in Separation of Church and State
Damon Fowler, a senior at Bastrop High School, a public school in Louisiana, just discovered that where he lives believing in the Constitution is grounds for persecution.
Earlier this week Fowler wrote to his high school principal to object to a Christian prayer that was listed on the program at his graduation ceremony, scheduled for this evening. Unless it was removed, Fowler said, he would contact the American Civil Liberties Union and take legal action against the school for violating the separation of Church and State.
“My graduation from high school is this Friday,” Damon wrote yesterday on Reddit.
“I live in the Bible Belt of the United States. The school was going to perform a prayer at graduation, but due to me sending the superintendent an email stating it was against Louisiana state law and that I would be forced to contact the ACLU if they ignored me, they ceased it. The school backed down, but that’s when the shitstorm rolled in. Everyone is trying to get it back in the ceremony now. I’m not worried about it, but everyone hates me… kind of worried about attending graduation now. It’s attracted more hostility than I thought.”
Bastrop is apparently like the town in “Footloose” – except they’re cool with dancing, just not democracy. They responded to Fowler’s actions by mocking him. Fowler told supporters on Reddit that he had to suspend his Facebook page temporarily because of the hate mail he was getting (it’s back up and you can friend him if you’re a supporter).
Last night was “Senior Class Night” for BHS and instead of focusing on celebrating the students’ academic achievements, the evening turned into a religious revival and an occasion to ridicule Fowler for his secular beliefs (h/t to Blag Hag).
Here’s footage of the “Senior Class Night” that was surreptitiously recorded:
And here’s a Facebook post from the student who led the prayer at the BHS valedictory practice (via Reddit):
Even Fowler’s mother turned on him. She banned him from the internet and prevented his older brother who lives in Texas from reaching out to him. So after some edits to his initial Reddit post, Fowler has been mostly out-of-reach to his supporters.
On top of the First Amendment which states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” and centuries of US legal precedent reinforcing the divide between Church and State, the blog Wall of Separation pointed out, the Supreme Court explicitly outlawed prayer at high school graduations 18 years ago in the Lee v. Weisman decision:
“[E]veryone knows that in our society and in our culture high school graduation is one of life’s most significant occasions…. [T]he Constitution forbids the State to exact religious conformity from a student as a price of attending her own high school graduation.”
President Obama, one of the most openly religious presidents in American history has risked being perceived as a Socialist Muslim to directly state that America is not a Christian nation.
“We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation,” the President said in Turkey two years ago, echoing the words of the 1796 Treaty of Tripoli – one of the benchmarks of US secularism. Obama continued: “We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values.”
In Bastrop those values are being put to the test. Tonight, is the BHS graduation and the principal has stated that she will respect the First Amendment and keep the prayer out of the ceremony.
“They said if we included a traditional prayer in the ceremony that they would contact the (American Civil Liberties Union),” Principal Stacey Pullen told the Bastrop Daily Enterprise. “We asked our attorney about it, and we are making changes to the program.”
That Daily Enterprise piece was essentially a hit piece against Fowler and the reporter didn’t even have the temerity to interview him. Mitzi Quinn, a staff member at BHS had the gall to tell the paper that “in the past… there have been students who were atheist, agnostic and other non-Christian religions who ‘had no problems’ with the prayer.”
She went on to say that “what’s even more sad is this is a student who really hasn’t contributed anything to graduation or to their classmates.”
Supporters of Fowler have setup a Facebook page where they’re discussing ways they can help him.
For now we’ll have to wait and see what ingenious way Bastrop’s Christianists discover to get around the removal of the the prayer and impose their theocratic beliefs on a minority. But even if the school abides by its decision to remove the prayer, the town of Bastrop and BHS has already succeeded in making life a living hell for Fowler (pardon the allusion).
I’m not sure which teaching of Jesus mentions tormenting and ridiculing minorities and imposing your beliefs on them but once again it seems that fundamentalists, be they Christian, Hindu, Jew or Muslim are nothing if not inconsistent, insecure and bereft of compassion.
Far for be it from me as an unbeliever to quote the Bible but even I can’t resist the appropriateness of this particular verse in the Gospel According to Matthew (h/t to pfar in the Daily Enterprise comments):
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”
UPDATE II (2:25PM Friday): this afternoon the Bastrop Daily Enterprise published an op-ed from a local Baptist preacher rebuking the town’s intolerant Christians for their treatment of Fowler.
“The absence of a public prayer at graduation does not remove the powerful influence of prayer on these students’ lives,” wrote Pastor Chris Wright. “Anger, threats, and retaliation are not the answer to this crisis – the answer is love, loving others like Jesus loves us.
UPDATE (12:42PM Friday): Damon just updated his Facebook page to say: “So everyone knows, last night was just Class Night. TODAY is the graduation, at 7:00 PM. I thank all of you for your support and I’m going to walk, no matter what they say or do. You guys are the best! Thanks for the much needed support 
”
May 20, 2011 at 6:35 pm, Jcook1147 said:
I highly admire Damon’s respect for the Constitution and First Amendment’s separation of church and state, along with the courage of his convictions to speak up. The hypocrisy of the administration and the students, who claim to be Christians and law abiding, are so obvious. As one who lived and worked in LA for years, I can attest to the widespread disrespect for the rule of law regarding religion in the schools. Furthermore, those same people have a perverted way of showing “love for their neighbor” as demonstrated in the Facebook posts. Hang tough and be strong, Damon. You are on the side of right and righteousness. By the way, the ACLU is a great organization, so call on them if you need help to defend your rights.
May 20, 2011 at 8:27 pm, Jinx McHue said:
Yeah, Damon’s really persecuted. Please.
May 20, 2011 at 8:57 pm, Joe Mama said:
Wow. Perhaps you’d like to attend a high school graduation event in Dearborne Michigan and have to bow down before Allah during the highschool graduation. Then maybe you’d have a little more empathy for Damon.
May 20, 2011 at 10:02 pm, Benji_13_2005 said:
No one is making him bow down. The prayer is a few seconds long and does not require any other participation than hearing people thank a “made up guys in the sky” by those minorities who believe that. I don’t see why this is so offensive, quite trivial on the contrary. I could rather see if they are directly praying to Jeus that a Muslim student would get upset about it, but why an atheist? Just seems petty and nothing more than a way to take a pop-shot at Christians. Sure the prayer shouldn’t originally be there, but regardless, if it is student led and students wants to thank a diety in their speech for their success then they should be able to. As for as Christians who are sending any kind of hate mail, rude gestures, or threats Damon’s way, they aren’t acting very Christlike. It’s easy to get zealous for something you believe so strongly in, and as a stuent pastor in the area, I’ve encouraged my studnts to love him, treat him with respect, and to even admire his courage in standing so boldly for what he believes in, though we may disagree. This story is getting out of hand very fast. Damon asked for prayer to be removed from the schedule and the school acted accordingly. Now we have students who are in the same way sticking up for what they believe in. As for the verse in Matthew regarding prayer, the pious religious leaders during Jesus’ time were using their spirituality as a means of social ranking, political power, and endulgence at the expense of the common folk. Christians need to remember that we should not demonstrate our prayer for any such gain, but simply as a means to appreciate our freedom in in voicing paying out loud. While prayer will most certainly go on during the ceremony, I hope no one uses that freedom in ANY demeaning way. God bless.
May 20, 2011 at 10:04 pm, Benji_13_2005 said:
Sorry for the typos, sometimes I type faster than my computer registers
May 20, 2011 at 11:25 pm, Brady said:
Because what you said isn’t true. In this country, those who believe in that made up man in the sky are the majority. And where he lives, they are the VAST majority. If things of this nature are allowed, where does it stop? Someone has to make a stand and say “Hey, public school? Prayer? I’m pretty sure the Framers didn’t want Christianity pressed onto those who don’t want it, and in a public, government funded school that is required by law to go to, no less.
May 20, 2011 at 11:42 pm, Stuart Anderson said:
Still a cunt though.
May 20, 2011 at 11:33 pm, Wintemute472002 said:
You just don’t get it, do you? A public school has no grounds to push prayer on anybody. So if you so desperately need to say your pathetic little prayer, do it in silence instead of expecting the state to make everyone comply with your fruity little belief.
May 21, 2011 at 3:56 am, Benji_13_2005 said:
The payer is not led by the school though, its completely student led. I understand that the school can’t enforce it and it shoudn’t. But student led prayer is a part of their rights. And where do we draw the line with the silencing of payer? Is it really that offesive to atheists who would happen to hear me at Mcdonalds thanking God for my provision of food? Do most atheists really get that mad when they hear someone pray? No matter the content of that prayer?
May 21, 2011 at 9:54 pm, Anonymous said:
Yeah, they can do it in the washroom.
May 26, 2011 at 9:48 am, Barry Spears said:
A Christian has to go to the washroom to say grace over his food because you are sitting at the next table and you don’t believe? Really? REALLY???
IIIIIIIII don’t think so Tim! You get up and move some where else if it’s that big an issue to you.
June 07, 2011 at 7:21 am, Anon said:
Your comment shows how little you comprehend the things that go on around you. The “Yeah, they can do it in the washroom.” comment was in support of Wintemute’s comment, not against Benji’s McDonalds comment.
Nogod was saying that those students who wish to pray during the function can meet in the washroom. I would also assume, since I have basic skills in reading comprehension, that he wasn’t implying that people can only pray in the washroom, but that they could find an alternate area which isn’t part of the official function.
May 20, 2011 at 11:42 pm, Stuart Anderson said:
You want to pray do it on your own tax dollars.
May 21, 2011 at 9:52 pm, Anonymous said:
Well put, Joe Mama. The ignorant Fundamentalist Christians say “as long as you don’t HAVE TO bow down to Allah, it should be ok.” Yeah, try it on them and see what they will say.
May 22, 2011 at 1:37 am, aWorldQuiteMad said:
It’s all fun and games so long as it’s a theocracy you agree with. It’s when it turns around and bites you in the ass that it’s a problem. I wonder how all the people of Damon’s town would feel if they had to sit through a Hindu prayer, or a Muslim prayer. They’d be up in arms, I guarantee you that.
And to all of the people who can’t understand why we are a secular democracy… move to Iran or Saudi Arabia. See how much you like theocracy.
May 20, 2011 at 9:18 pm, Shirley said:
Wow. You’re quite a cunt. Not only are atheists the most hated minority in America, but he has received DEATH THREATS for this. If that’s not evidence enough that he’s being persecuted I don’t know what is.
May 20, 2011 at 11:41 pm, Stuart Anderson said:
Cunt
May 20, 2011 at 11:53 pm, Anonymous said:
Well said. Very thoughtful reply.
May 21, 2011 at 9:49 pm, Anonymous said:
Jinx McHue: please what? Getting death threats are not a sign of persecution? Please JM: be a decent person.
Flag
May 20, 2011 at 9:03 pm, Ahutton39 said:
Here is one gutsy kid, with lots of moxie. This incident shows what happens when the dangerous mix of church and state goes unchecked. Damon Fowler has my support, it must be horrifying have to go through this crap at the hand of bunch of driveling sniveling, slobbering retards.
May 21, 2011 at 9:48 pm, Anonymous said:
Go Fowler Go. Fowler has my support too.
Jinx McHue: please what? Getting death threats are not a sign of persecution? Please JM: be a decent person.
May 20, 2011 at 9:26 pm, Terry Day said:
Xians are very scary people, especially when you get in their way of trying to take over the government.
May 20, 2011 at 11:22 pm, Larry Linn said:
My grandparents had to flee Northern Ireland after death threats
because of conflicts between Catholics and Protestants. She was Protestant, and
he was Catholic. When I became of age, I volunteered and joined the Army, and I
served as an 11B Infantryman. Most of my time in the field was in squad or
platoon size operations. When there were conflicts between the South Vietnamese
Buddhists and Christian, we would have discussions about what we were fighting
for. It always came back to the “Bill of Rights”. To me the most important was
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”.
What else did our Founding Fathers have to say about religion?
“Question with boldness even the existence of a god.”
- Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787):
“All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish,
Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to
terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” Thomas
Paine, The Age of Reason;
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity,
the less they are mixed together”, James Madison.
“Lighthouses are more helpful than Churches”, Benjamin Franklin.
Our Founding Fathers never intended for the United States to be
a religious nation.
January 08, 2012 at 6:26 pm, Nate said:
“I am sure there was never a people who had more reason to acknowledge a divine intervention in their affairs, than those of the United States; and I should be pained to believe, that they have forgotten that agency, which was so often manifested during our revolution, or that they failed to consider the omnipotence of that God, who is alone able to protect them.” -George Washington (The Writings of George Washington, compiled by John C. Fitzpatrick 1931-1944 vol. 32:2) 1792.
May 21, 2011 at 8:52 am, Kur said:
“what’s even more sad is this is a student who really hasn’t contributed anything to graduation or to their classmates.”
Well, now he has. Probably the biggest contribution in the history of your shit school.
May 21, 2011 at 5:09 pm, Bob said:
What ever happened to baccalaureate? When I graduated, the religious service was on a separate day from commencement, and was explicitly optional.
May 21, 2011 at 9:46 pm, Anonymous said:
Is it not true one is suppose to be an enlightened person when graduate? This school is a shame for the US.
May 21, 2011 at 5:09 pm, Bob said:
What ever happened to baccalaureate? When I graduated, the religious service was on a separate day from commencement, and was explicitly optional.
May 21, 2011 at 5:34 pm, Lynn Wells said:
The whole thing is rather sad, actually. Sad that in a country founded by people who fled to find religious freedom, religion in any form is a huge no-no in public. Sad that ‘Christians’ are sending death-threats to this child. Sad that this child feels one short prayer would ruin his graduation experience as a whole. Sad that everyone has to be so PC about what they say that, in truth, there is very little genuine freedom left in this country.
The honest fact is that no person can say without a doubt what our forefathers would have done because they did pray at so many functions. There are no records of them fighting over which religion got to pray what kind of prayer or pitching childish fits that it was done in public place or manner. They were just so grateful to have the chance; a chance that our children may fight for or against but do not truly have themselves.
How hard is it to keep your eyes open and look around instead of joining in a prayer (if indeed it is a student-led part of the ceremony), or if you are religious in a different way, to pray for a moment to your own god? People are so happy to quote the first part ‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,’ but always ignore ‘or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.’ The simple truth is that we punish people for exercising any form of freedom of religion, because the only freedom of religion (no matter which) that is actually allowed ‘publicly’ is agnosticism or atheism. We have (or are currently) outlawed anything else for fear of hurting feelings.
Look at both sides, you will find angry people behaving deplorably, but look all around for one spot in America where you can stand up publicly and speak a prayer out loud to God, Alah, the devil or any other entity without being held accountable and/or harassed… you simply cannot.
Freedom of religion? I dare to say that it does not actually exist anymore. Too many petty people have stripped it away for too long. That part of the constitution that says “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” is a thing of the past and who, I ask you, is left to fight for it?
May 21, 2011 at 9:45 pm, Anonymous said:
Bully is wrong, religious or not.
May 22, 2011 at 1:30 am, aWorldQuiteMad said:
You want to practice your religion, go to church. No one is preventing that. Every time someone stands up for what is right, Christians play the persecution card.
June 03, 2011 at 2:29 am, SlightlyHarmless said:
Pot? Meet kettle.
Quite honestly I think you’re rather sad, actually. Sad in that you don’t understand the difference between being free to believe what you believe and having the majority belief of a particular location dictate what it means to be a full member of society. It’s not that the words of the prayer have some magic that ruins it for this “child,” it’s that governments (and public schools as extensions thereof) should remain neutral with respect to the personal religious beliefs of its citizenry and should not make participation in the rituals of a particular belief a requirement for the full benefits of citizenship. We are free to believe what we want to believe spiritually, and what that also means is we are free from being coerced to act as if we believe what the majority thinks that spiritually should be.
Moving on. You declare that no one could know the intention of the founding fathers, and then you conclude the paragraph by asserting their intent.
How hard is it to keep your eyes open and look around you and see the people in restaurants, praying their own prayers to their own gods without being arrested or harassed; the various religious garb and decoration people adorn themselves and their possessions with; the signs and banners displayed publicly from private buildings; the street preachers who go unbothered save for a few dirty looks and brushoffs. Clearly there is no prohibition of the free exercise thereof. And so shall there be no joining of a particular sect with the powers of the government.
You may dare to say that freedom of religion does not actually exist anymore, but look at what you’re doing and where you’re doing it. I doubt that you’re facing any actual persecution for professing your beliefs here. You’re on the most open and free forum for expressing those beliefs as you can be. And the beautiful thing is, no one has the threat of government to shut you up.
May 21, 2011 at 5:37 pm, patriot said:
Good for the school standing against him. It’s people like him have made America a piece of crap.
May 21, 2011 at 9:44 pm, Anonymous said:
Go Damon Fowler Go! Fundamentalist Christians are the ones that have made America a piece of crap. Let’s undo the damage now.
May 23, 2011 at 6:52 pm, Iolanthe said:
No, darlin’. That’d be people like you.
June 07, 2011 at 7:09 am, Anon said:
What an absolutely ignorant thing to say.
May 21, 2011 at 5:54 pm, Gary L. DeVries said:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”.
Another key point in the law is the the part where it says “Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” By forcibly removing the rights of the ones who believe from allowing them to pray you are undermining their rights to religion as well. You don’t have to pray but they should be allowed to otherwise you are doing the exact same thing that you are blaming them for. Forcing your beliefs on them. I never believed in God when in school either but as someone who believed in “EVERYONE’S” rights and not just my own when they wanted to pray it didn’t bother me any I just continued with my work or whatever the hell else I wanted to do. I guess I am just more tolerant of EVERYONE’S beliefs than all of you and them both. Both sides are a bunch of hypocrites.
Why is it you have the right to proudly proclaim if you are gay, or that
you kill babies, or that you are an illegal, but they are not allowed
to proudly show they believe that there is a God?
May 21, 2011 at 8:29 pm, James Smith said:
Tell you what, here’s an offer they might have liked. They can have their prayer, for as long as they like. During that time, no one is permitted to leave or display any sign of disrespect, verbally, with gestures, or signs.
Then I will be given equal time to make an atheist statement and the same rules about leaving and disrespect apply.
Do you seriously think that bunch of hypocrites would agree to this?
May 22, 2011 at 1:34 am, aWorldQuiteMad said:
That’s the problem. They won’t. And you know what, that kind of stuff works wonders. You tell them you’re going to have a Hindu prayer, and a Wiccan prayer, and a Buddhist prayer, and an atheist can make a statement, and by golly, they suddenly don’t want to pray now.
It’s really an obfuscation to say that the town’s rights are being abridged. No one is preventing them from going to church, or from practicing their religion. Your rights extend only so far as they don’t trample on the rights of others. That whole town trampled all over Damon Fowler’s rights. If they want to pray, they can do so before or after the graduation. No one is preventing that. This is about power, which is the antithesis of everything Jesus taught, which was love. There is no love in that town.
May 23, 2011 at 7:20 am, (Mostly) Law Abiding Citizen said:
I might be a bit late, but I don’t really care….I too can quote sections of the law, except that mine actually contains the entire part, not just and extension that I’ve used to make myself seem superior.”By forcibly removing the rights of the ones who believe from allowing them to pray you are undermining their rights to religion as well. You don’t have to pray but they should be allowed to (do so, ) otherwise you are doing the exact same thing that you are blaming them for: forcing your beliefs on them.”Actually… US law, as decided by the US Supreme Courts in 1992, which is 18 years ago, decided that it is unconstitutional for the students, on school (and therefore government) property, during school (and therefore government) funded and sponsored events to publicly incite prayer, regardless of the denomination or faith it is attributed to. Whether it is graduation, prom, or a school assembley, it is illegal. LEGALITY is the point in these sorts of events. in 1995, Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe directly relates to this, where students led prayer before and after football games…The decision on the case was this: The District’s policy permitting student-led, student-initiated prayer at football games violates the Establishment Clause. Pp. 9—26.The freedom of religion is not intended to be construed as having protection of doing whatever you please with your religious views, but rather as protection FROM the religious views of others. Americans came to this continent/country (depends on the time period) as a result of religious PERSECUTION. Wether it was King George demanding everyone follow his new made-up version of Christianity, or Pagans fleeing from Spanish Catholics, they wished for protection FROM religion and religious persecution; NOT the freedom to persecute.You ask why it is that “they are not allowed to proudly show they believe that there is a God?”. I answer you with Kennedy’s statement from 18, almost 19, years ago in the case of Lee v Weisman, which involved JEWISH prayer.”What to most believers may seem nothing more than a reasonable request that the nonbeliever respect their religious practices, in a school context may appear to the nonbeliever or dissenter to be an attempt to employ the machinery of the State to enforce a religious orthodoxy.” Kennedy during Lee v Weisman 1992For these reasons, it is obvious that for one to be “tolerant of ”EVERYONE’S” rights and not just my own”", one should keep their religious views to themselves, especially during government and school related functions. By doing this, you abstain from imposing your views on others, adhere to the law, and treat EVERYONE with the common decency that all beings deserve.If there is anything you don’t believe, think I am lying about, or think I don’y have enough evidence, please feel free to FGS. (Freaking Google Somethin)
May 23, 2011 at 7:22 am, (Mostly) Law Abiding Citizen said:
Would just like to say, the formatting on that got all screwed up. Had all kinds of wonderful breaks for the simpletons out there
May 21, 2011 at 6:04 pm, James Smith said:
These people are un-American, un-christian, and inhuman. They seem to be the kind that leap upon any reason to bully and persecute others. Where is their christian love and tolerance? What a disgusting group pf human beings they are.
I had similar problems with my family. I had warned them that, if they kept it up, I would be gone and they wouldn’t see me again. The night I graduated from high school, I left home and didn’t speak to or see my parents for almost two years. Fortunately, I was able to pay my own way in college during that time. Then I joined the military and was able to complete my college degree while there.
My relationship with my parents and some other relatives remained strained for over 20 years. Apparently, their delusions and forcing them on me were more important than family ties.
May 21, 2011 at 9:42 pm, Anonymous said:
Fundamentalist Christianity is no doubt a significant source of conflicts today, religious or otherwise.
June 05, 2011 at 10:24 am, Mark Rosenthal said:
Yepp.
May 21, 2011 at 6:09 pm, john charles webb jr said:
Damon Fowler may become a great lawyer . . . . .
publicly-funded institutions, like public schools, cannot lawfully impose ‘private religious practices (i.e.prayer)’ upon all in attendance . . . .
especially when one is a ‘hostage’ in a graduation commencement .
May the Buddha make your ears grow : and may Allah kick their asses !
perhaps next time a Sufi dance !
May 21, 2011 at 6:14 pm, john charles webb jr said:
it is a matter of curiosity regarding how Fowler’s message to the principal was made public (?) …
perhaps Fowler told his friends . . . .
otherwise , the principal (it seems) should be fired for knowingly placing Fowler in harm’s way .
May 21, 2011 at 9:59 pm, Anonymous said:
I like to see a Sufi dance by Fundamentalist Christians. It would be funny.
May 21, 2011 at 6:41 pm, Jonathan Forester said:
I think we need to respect others’ freedoms of speach and religion as much as we are expected to respect Mr. Fowler’s freedom of religion.
May 21, 2011 at 9:58 pm, Anonymous said:
Fowler is fighting for his freedom FROM religions in a public institution, which is guaranteed under the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
June 07, 2011 at 7:31 am, Anon said:
If an atheist were to stand before a graduating class and speak for 15 seconds about there being no god, would you be as understanding?
May 21, 2011 at 9:40 pm, Anonymous said:
Bastrop High School is the joke of the US.
You see, the fundamentalists have messed up the education of the young people in this country. It is time to do something.
May 21, 2011 at 9:40 pm, Anonymous said:
Go Damon Fowler GO.
May 22, 2011 at 2:30 pm, Gilly031 said:
Simply the minority imposing their will thru the courts…
May 23, 2011 at 11:05 am, QWEKLH said:
I’m not too much into religion myself, but to ruin other peoples day just so that one single individual can have his “day” is just sad.
He himself said he lived in the bible belt. I know the bible belt. It is very proud of its religion and not ashamed to show it.
It is as criminal for this student to ban a simple prayer at his graduation ceremony as it was criminal for another student to be ban from his prom because of the way he asked his date to it or as criminal as another prom to be cancelled because a girl wanted to take another girl to the prom and wear a tuxedo as well.
This student didn’t ban this prayer for his own health. He wanted to ban this prayer to prove a point. The point is mute except to him and his little ban of extremist followers. He had other options if he didn’t want to participate in the prayer. Now he alone is forcing a whole group to do something that is not wanted. He must be feeling all powerful right now. There is no stopping him now.
There is a separation of church and state, but it didn’t mean that our founding fathers didn’t pray. Till this day congress prays, not that it helps them much.
May 25, 2011 at 2:44 am, (Mostly) Law Abiding Citizen said:
I’m not too much into religion myself, but to ruin one kid’s day, view of an entire people, religion, and state, and break the law
just so that one one extremist group can have their “laugh” is just sad.
He
himself said he lived in the bible belt. I know the bible belt. It is
very proud of its sense of freedom and Justice, and is not afraid to show it. I mean, look at the state of Texas: Freedom Fries, Death penalty to punish the worst criminal and save other potential victims, and even their own special edition of the Ford F150 and the Tahoe dedicated to them for their never ending search fro Justice and equality.
It is NOT criminal for this student to ask that an illegal prayer at his graduation
ceremony be removed, as proven by US Law and several posts on this page.
These students didn’t include this
prayer for their own health. They wanted to include this prayer to prove a
point, ostracize and demonize Damon, and shove their own views down the throats of every American. The point is mute except to them and their little ban of extremist
followers. Thye had other options if they absolutely needed to participate in the
prayer. Now they as a community, state, religion, and people are forcing every non-believer and dissenter to do something that is
not wanted. They must be feeling all powerful right now. There is no
stopping them now.
There is a separation of church and state, which is intended to protect the rights of all people. Though the founder fathers were all some denomination of Christian, even they wish for it to be excluded from government. And yes, school is part of government as one is legally mandated to attend and the school itself is funded by said government.
There… I fixed it for you. My favorite part was when you kept accidentally leaving the “t” and the “y” off of the word “they”, making it seem to the unsuspecting reader that you are in favor of what the Christianists were doing by breaking the law and attacking this child. I mean, I can tell that you are a smart person, so this must have jsut been a lot of repetitive unconscious typos… right?
As another “smart person” on here wrote:
”Another key point in the law is the the part where it says “Or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” By forcibly removing the
rights of the ones who believe from allowing them to pray you are
undermining their rights to religion as well”
However if the “prohibiting thereof” makes getting rid of the Christian prayer a crime, (which it explicitly does not) then stopping Damon and others from practicing their beliefs/non-beliefs by including the prayer is also a crime.
So the total score of crimes here is… Christianist a-wipes:2, Damon:1 if you are an idiot, 0 if you know anything about law and tolerance.
May 24, 2011 at 7:34 am, judy said:
Seperation of Church and State wasn’t to protect Americans from religion, it was to keep the government from establishing a state religion. And just because our founding fathers were a product of the Enlightenment doesn’t mean we were never supposed to have any kind of religious identity, or be allowed to express a simple prayer in school. People have decided to twist the constitution as grounds to attack religious expression. I had a prayer at my high school graduation and nobody got uptight. The student deserved what he got.
May 24, 2011 at 8:40 am, concerned american said:
Public schools are run by mine and every American’s tax dollars. Government institutions can not endorse nor deny any religion. The reason we have separation of church and state is not only for protection for tyranny of the majority. They’re also there to protect your rights. I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if a public school endorsed Muslim prayer.
May 24, 2011 at 11:16 pm, Barry Spears said:
What was done to this kid is wrong…but he got his way. What did he expect would happen when he imposed his will on everyone else in the school and community? A great big collective “atta boy!” and a pat on the back?
What was done to this kid is wrong…but the statement that Bastop is not cool with demacracy is wrong…the minority ruled over the majority. What the community wanted was democracy…majority rules. That’s not what happened here.
What was done to this kid is wrong…but Christians or one of the most persecuted groups in the world. Odds are somewhere in the world today a person was persecuted to the point of being KILLED for being a Christian.
What was done to this kid was wrong …but I am OFFENDED by the use of the term “Christianists.” True Christians are not terrorists and it is wrong to suggest so. Of coarse Political Correctness does not apply to Christians. It is apparently perfectly OK to offend any and all Christrians.
What was done to this kid is wrong…but this business about respecting the beliefs of others, by keeping your beliefs to yourself apparently is something only Christians are required to do.
May 25, 2011 at 2:57 am, (Mostly) Law Abiding Citizen said:
Oh… so because people don’t like it, it was okay?
How exactly is the entire town the minority?
Actually, since they are the ones who start wars and what not (commonly called the Crusades) I would think that they are hated not because of their beliefs, but because of their actions….
2.1 First Crusade 1095–1099
2.2 Second Crusade 1147–1149 2.3 Third Crusade 1187–1192 2.4 Fourth Crusade 1202–1204 2.5 Albigensian Crusade 2.6 Children’s Crusade 2.7 Fifth Crusade 1217–1221 2.8 Sixth Crusade 1228–1229 2.9 Seventh Crusade 1248–1254 2.10 Eighth Crusade 1270 2.11 Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
2.12 Northern Crusades
2.13 Other, including the Crusade on Tartar and Nicopolis, Varna, and the wars against the Ottoman Empire
2.14 Norwich Crusade
True followers of Islam are not terrorists either.
Really? so when a Jewish father made a prayer at a school function, the US Supreme Court ruled that it was completely okay for him to do it? Thus setting the precedence that Separation of Church and State was only of the Christian Church? Thus making it Separation of Christian Church and State?
When a christianist town goes out of their way to include a prayer, which they already were informed of as being illegal, they shouldn’t experience anyone saying “Hey that is wrong and illegal”?
So I am getting from you is that… It is okay to do something if everybody else does it… Minority and Majority are incorrectly named… People who have in the past started wars deserve to do whatever the hell they want… and that only followers of Islam can be terrorists and everyone one of them is.
May 25, 2011 at 4:18 am, Barry Spears said:
(Mostly) Law Abiding Citizen …I stated five(5) times that what was done to the kid was wrong. You miss that?The town is not the minority, the KID is the minority…and he got his way. IN democracy the majority rules. That is not what happened here. This boy made a…in my opinion…pathetic attenion grab, and got what he wanted. Now he is complaining because he got the attention he wanted. My opinion.I did not suggest that the Crusades did not take place, nor did I suggest that they were justified. One denominational group of Christianity carried out the Crusades. Not right to blame all for the actions of some. But if you insist on going down that road…Chrisianity was originally spread by the followers of Jesus Christ traveling the known world PREACHING his Gospel. Islam was originally spread by Mohammed himself leading armies in Jihads. “Convert to my teachings or DIE.” But let’s blame All Christianity for ALL WARS ever fought! Spare me. Lame and BORING! True followers of Islam are not Terrorists? OK. When did I say otherwise in my original post. I didn’t say anything about Muslims until the previous paragraph and only in response to your tired, lame, boring “CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME FOR ALL WARS” argument. I said I find the term “Christianists” to be offensive. It is. It implies something that is a LIE.I’m not sure I follow what your point was about the Jewish father.I did not say anything about something being OK because “everyone else does it.” The KID is the minority, the rest of the city of Bastrop is the majority. The kid got what he wanted…the prayer was taken out of the graduation ceremony. How did I incorrectly rename the minority and the majority? Christianity is not responsible for all wars. One denomination did institute some conflicts..no denying that, but to hold that over all Chistianity is WRONG. And again…I did not, in my original post say anything for or against Islam. I objected to the offensive term “Christianists” I stated I was offended by this…but of coarse that does not matter because while it is politically incorrect to offend anyone else, it is perfectly acceptable to offend Christians. Five(5) times I say what was done to the kid was wrong…and you missed that…*SIGH*
May 25, 2011 at 6:21 am, (Mostly) Law Abiding Citizen said:
Yes i understand that you stated that 5 times, followed by “but “. Most people would see that as a rationalization used to make both sides (Damon and Bastrop) seem to share some sort of blame/rationality. I do not suggest that you think it was okay for this to be done to him, but rather oppose your idea of “what did you expect?”
A good Christian, not Christianist, would be expected to do/say something like the following: “Oh geez! I did not even realize that what we were doing was illegal and could be seen as offensive to not only atheists, but to other religions as well! I think we should just leave this out, maybe have a moment of silence where people can think or pray on their own, and continue with the graduation.
So, let me rephrase my original statements, or explain them at least.Point 1. Because the majority is Christian and Damon knew it, standing up for the Constitution and his own rights was a pathetic grab at attention? Do you really think he said “Hey I’ll be all over the internet for this? Hell, if I get death threats, I will be immortalized as an Atheist hero?”Again, the “what did you expect?” thing… that’s just BS if you ask me.Point 2. Ah! Okay, that makes much more sense now. The original phrasing implied (at least to me) that Damon was the majority. This was because of how you said that he ruled over the majority and got what he wanted, when in reality he did not get the prayer removed… I hope you can see how that would be confusing.Point 3. I never said that all Christians are to be blamed for all of the wars. I did say that there was many many many wars waged in the name of their faith, thus making it more obvious that some are hateful, rather than hatED.I fail to see how it is that Christians are soooo hated today, as you said. Unless you are referring to SOME Atheists who were turned away from religion by the actions of said Christians.Point 4. You are offended by the addition of “ists” to Christian, as this implies terrorism. Why would it be implied with terrorism? Because of a belief that “Islamists” are terrorists. Using the same logic you presented, “True Christians are not terrorists and it is wrong to suggest so. “, in combination with your implication that the “ists” means they are terrorists, it is also wrong to suggest that True Muslims/Followers of Islam are terrorists.In all reality, the usage of Christianists, is simply to separate the radicals from the normal, loving, nice Christians. Also, as we have said many times on here, these people are obviously NOT true Christians as they insist on praying “like the hypocrites”Point 5. You wrote about how there is this implication that only Christians should have to keep their views to themselves in governmental and publicly funded events. My comments about a Jewish father were from the case of Lee v Weisman, which is mentioned many many times on this page, and were refuting the aforementioned implications. Wether it was Muslim, Wiccan, Christian, Jewish, non-denominational, Greek, Norse, or Egyptian, the prayer is wrong to include and should be left out for the sake of tolerance and morality.
May 25, 2011 at 6:23 am, (Mostly) Law Abiding Citizen said:
DAMN IT!
I hate how it does that!
I am sorry for anyone who had to read that without any of the line breaks and what-not. I know how confusing it can be.
May 26, 2011 at 9:23 am, Barry Spears said:
We are not changing each others minds. OK. Please take a look at these links though…
http://www.godvine.com/Christians-are-Being-Persecuted-and-Murdered-Worldwide-32.html
http://www.godvine.com/Woman-Gets-Sentenced-to-Death-for-Insulting-the-Muslim-Faith-87.html
May 27, 2011 at 12:49 am, (Mostly) Law Abiding Citizen said:
I must thank you for relieving me of some degree of ignorance, especially about what is going on outside the US.
I do not wish to change your mind, but only wish to know if you really do think that Christians are among the most persecuted, as you stated. In all truthfulness, EVERY belief system and way-of-life is under attack by someone who opposes it. I guess what I am trying to say is this: No one religion is more hated than the other, and I am surprised you would think so.
Please take a look at theses links…
Muslim Persecution:
One
Two
Three
Jews:
One
Two
Three
Buddhists:
One
Two
Three
Wiccans:
One
Two
Atheists:
One
Two
Three
And if anyone uses the “these people aren’t true believers” statement, it is BS. If those people did not truly believe that they were true believers, they would not do these things.
June 07, 2011 at 7:26 am, Anon said:
I’m not racist, but….
May 25, 2011 at 3:03 am, (Mostly) Law Abiding Citizen said:
I love the people on here who think that it is okay for these Christianists to do this because they are the majority, or becasue removing the prayer would somehow be “criminal” based on the Exclusion Clause. By that logic, including the prayer and stopping atheists and those of other faiths from practicing their beliefs is also a crime. So, let’s add 1 more to the crimes that Bastrop and it’s community have commited, and add an imaginary 1 to Damon’s crimes.
I also like the people who make other such STUPID comments, are presented with cold hard evidence and facts and then either don’t come back to apologize, withdraw their statements, or even defend themselves further.
May 25, 2011 at 10:52 am, Jack Teal said:
More evidence that we need to pull the south out of the bronze age
May 25, 2011 at 12:19 pm, Appletreeheart said:
Im rather surprised they left the names on the facebook message screenshot. If anyone was wondering, it’s possible to message Sarah Beth Barlow. trololololololol
May 25, 2011 at 7:22 pm, Psequoia said:
I had a Seventh Day Adventist 3rd grade teacher. She came on strong with her doctrines, made us listen and learn her beliefs. That was 35 years ago. Now brave people like Damon stand up and try to remind America that forcing your religion in a school is baaaad Why can’t they gather after the ceremony and pray together?
June 03, 2011 at 6:16 pm, Brokemack said:
This kid just sounds like a brat. Don’t participate in the prayer and deal with it. There are religious people in this world who pray… being subjected to a prayer isn’t gonna kill anyone.
I do not believe in God, but my parents sent me to a Catholic high school anyways, where teachers were required to lead a prayer before EVERY CLASS. It was a pet peeve, if anything… In fact, it reaffirmed my stance against religion. But, again, it wasn’t the goddamn end of the world.
June 07, 2011 at 7:04 am, Anon said:
Civil liberties are civil liberties. Just because you place no value on your own, do not expect others to feel the same. Some people stand up for what they believe in.
June 05, 2011 at 10:21 am, Mark Rosenthal said:
Benji wrote:
“No one is making him bow down. The prayer is a few seconds long and does
not require any other participation than hearing people thank a
“made up guys in the sky” by those minorities who believe that. I don’t
see why this is so offensive, quite trivial on the contrary.”
——————————-
The answer to that is quite simple. The prayer should not be happening in the first place. It is a public event, sponsored by public dollars, not a christian event sponsored by private dollars. And ever hear of “peer pressure”? How many of those who do not wish to pray are actually going to refrain? Just look at that video and you can see the vile behaviour of people who are supposedly proclaiming the love of God.
And a generic prayer will not do it, either. Madeleine Murray O’Hare did the christian world a huge favor by challenging mandatory prayer. Ever read the actual text of the prayer she challenged?
Also amazing how some really obviously ignorant and stupid conservative posters here: referencing Dearborn and Islam is just the tip of the iceberg.
Christians just love to claim they are being persecuted, but here we see an obvious case of the opposite. Beware of people who are sure sure that only THEY have it right, that only THEY know the real message and have a specific mission from God to eliminate all the lesser ones, for THEY are the “special” ones and the rest of us are not…. foks, we have already seen this history, now haven’t we…
June 06, 2011 at 4:40 pm, AD said:
What annoys me is that as wrong as the response has been, the people commenting here are no better and talking as viciously against the town as the town talks against Damon Fowler.
Further, a lot of people are talking as if the school refused to listen to Damon, when in fact there was no conflict at all… He informed them it was illegal, they looked into it, and stepped back without question. The school acted perfectly legally and never tried to flaunt the law once made aware.
Sure, after that the community lashed out against him, but that’s hardly the school’s fault – it’s their views and they felt attacked in them by his actions, especially since he’s the one who started adversarially: he didn’t simply request it be removed and was turned out; he started off threatening to call the ACLU before doing anything.
No, it’s not right to bully, but the school did not bully him – only individuals did. The amount of individuals just happens to be the whole town, which I’m sure he should have expected from the start since he knows he lives in the bible belt which got its name for a reason.
Bullying a bully is not any more right, and insulting them in return either, because in the end its a catch-22: either way, someone is imposing his view on another. What happened to having the moral high ground?
February 19, 2012 at 7:59 am, Chidinma Ukoha Kalu said:
you can stand your ground but if you able to make a pledge of allegiance or sing the national anthem then it is ridiculous to cause an uproar because you do not agree with prayer.congratulations for creating a storm in a tea cup you made no contribution to humanity once again.
May 19, 2012 at 3:08 am, Justin Currie said:
Bitch.